Mixing Heavy Guitars!

[theojkett]

Recording guitars

Without hearing it, I can only give you guesses as to why it isnt working.

1. Too much distortion. This with give you a fuzzy mess that doesn't let you hear what the guitar is playing. You need to dial in a crunchy sound, not a fuzzy one.

2. Scooping the mids. Guitars are a midrange instrument, if you scoop out all the mids, all you are left with is mud and hiss. That isn't what will cut through a mix and sound agressive

3. Copy and paste. You actually need to play the part twice in order to create stereo by panning them apart. Copy/paste doesn't work.

You need to post an mp3 of what you have. Then you will get specific recommendations for your situation.

Okay.... here is my pet-peeve in this statement right here. "Too much distortion"... UGH... I have been playing and recording for 30 years and every time an engineer tells me that, I want to bean him across the head with my FX board. Guitarist, for all of their quirks, have worked on their sound and have found the sound that they like and that defines them. Asking them to change their sound to accommodate the engineers inability to record what he hears is no different then telling a drummer he has to play softer because he's causing distortion from the mics (I've had that happen). If we reduce our distortion to please the engineer or the producer, then we don't have the sound we want and we won't be happy with our work, because it will not be our sound, it will be the engineer's sound, the producers sound. As guitarist, we know our gear that is our yard. As an engineer, you know or should know your gear and how to use it, that's your yard. Stay out of my yard and i'll stay out of yours. You may look over my fence and tell me there is a better way to cut the grass, but I like the way I cut my grass and you don't know my lawn mower. Now if you want to use my mower, I'm going to advise you the best way to use it for the best results. Dig?

WHAT you hear coming out of the amp is what you should hear coming out of the control room speakers. If you don't, it's not the guitar players problem, it is the engineers problem.

Now to your recording issue..... Re-record the guitar track with your sound as you like to hear it coming from your amp. MIC it about 2 feet from the speaker cab, set your eq on the board to all flat, reduce your input gain. Remove any and all effects at the board, your effects should come from your guitar gear, not something processed at the board.

If you are using your line-out from your amp, don't. Regardless of what they tell you, it overdrives the input signal into the recording gear and gives you a "fuzzy" sound.

If you are using a Boss, Digitech or some other type of floor pedal board for your guitar effects, most of these have a USB port. Connect this unit to your computer, plug into your amp like you normally do. Change your output on the pedal board from the modeled amp you may have it set for to Line/headphone out. This is an internal control that you select. Now what you are doing is basically running your guitar sound with the pedal board direct to the recording software. Your PC or MAC and software should all say "Hey, you've connected a Boss GT-10, let me make that part of the gear available".... and tada! It should be nice and full with no recording "fuzzy-ness", I know, because I do it all the time.

This message brought to you buy an old guy who's been doing this crap a long time. Peace and all that.... TK

 

[RAMI]

Okay.... here is my pet-peeve in this statement right here. "Too much distortion"... UGH... I have been playing and recording for 30 years and every time an engineer tells me that, I want to bean him across the head with my FX board. Guitarist, for all of their quirks, have worked on their sound and have found the sound that they like and that defines them. Asking them to change their sound to accommodate the engineers inability to record what he hears is no different then telling a drummer he has to play softer because he's causing distortion from the mics (I've had that happen). If we reduce our distortion to please the engineer or the producer, then we don't have the sound we want and we won't be happy with our work, because it will not be our sound, it will be the engineer's sound, the producers sound. As guitarist, we know our gear that is our yard. As an engineer, you know or should know your gear and how to use it, that's your yard. Stay out of my yard and i'll stay out of yours. You may look over my fence and tell me there is a better way to cut the grass, but I like the way I cut my grass and you don't know my lawn mower. Now if you want to use my mower, I'm going to advise you the best way to use it for the best results. Dig?

I'm not disagreeing other than to say, I think when people talk about "less distortion", they're generally referring to if you're layering tracks. Not double tracking, but multiple tracks. In that case, I can see why it might be wise to roll back the distortion a bit for each track. But I agree that your sound is your sound.

 

[jimmys69]

Okay.... here is my pet-peeve in this statement right here. "Too much distortion"... UGH... I have been playing and recording for 30 years and every time an engineer tells me that, I want to bean him across the head with my FX board. Guitarist, for all of their quirks, have worked on their sound and have found the sound that they like and that defines them. Asking them to change their sound to accommodate the engineers inability to record what he hears is no different then telling a drummer he has to play softer because he's causing distortion from the mics (I've had that happen). If we reduce our distortion to please the engineer or the producer, then we don't have the sound we want and we won't be happy with our work, because it will not be our sound, it will be the engineer's sound, the producers sound. As guitarist, we know our gear that is our yard. As an engineer, you know or should know your gear and how to use it, that's your yard. Stay out of my yard and i'll stay out of yours. You may look over my fence and tell me there is a better way to cut the grass, but I like the way I cut my grass and you don't know my lawn mower. Now if you want to use my mower, I'm going to advise you the best way to use it for the best results. Dig?

WHAT you hear coming out of the amp is what you should hear coming out of the control room speakers. If you don't, it's not the guitar players problem, it is the engineers problem.

Now to your recording issue..... Re-record the guitar track with your sound as you like to hear it coming from your amp. MIC it about 2 feet from the speaker cab, set your eq on the board to all flat, reduce your input gain. Remove any and all effects at the board, your effects should come from your guitar gear, not something processed at the board.

If you are using your line-out from your amp, don't. Regardless of what they tell you, it overdrives the input signal into the recording gear and gives you a "fuzzy" sound.

If you are using a Boss, Digitech or some other type of floor pedal board for your guitar effects, most of these have a USB port. Connect this unit to your computer, plug into your amp like you normally do. Change your output on the pedal board from the modeled amp you may have it set for to Line/headphone out. This is an internal control that you select. Now what you are doing is basically running your guitar sound with the pedal board direct to the recording software. Your PC or MAC and software should all say "Hey, you've connected a Boss GT-10, let me make that part of the gear available".... and tada! It should be nice and full with no recording "fuzzy-ness", I know, because I do it all the time.

This message brought to you buy an old guy who's been doing this crap a long time. Peace and all that.... TK

Ok, well... This is only true if in fact the tone of the player is actually good. Keep in mind, there are many who think that their tone is great, and it is not.

I have also done this crap for a long time. It is quite typical to adjust the gain on an amp when layering multiple guitar parts. There is a difference between what someone hears to be good live, and what is captured with a microphone. Ears do not work the same way as a transducer. What you hear, is not the same as what a microphone picks up.

That being said, with the ones who actually get their tone right before recording, it is as simple as putting a mic in front of the speaker.

Now, in the case of the OP (and his sample of tone), there is no 'to much gain' thing going on at all. I feel it is more of a gear thing to get a good tone. Just my personal opinion. I have no real fix suggestion, as his shiz is not in my room to give an honest judgement.

And no, you can't tell a drummer to play quiet. Whatever engineer who told you that, needs to be flogged with a cane. That is just ridiculous.

 

[BroKen_H]

OK, I'm a noob to recording, but have recorded more times than I care to mention. Absolutely correct that the engineer should get the sound the guitarist is putting out...if the guitarist is putting out good sound. The second word of the OP was "amateur".
This guy's looking for advice on how to get a better, heavy, layered sound: AND I believe from what I read, he's going to be the engineer: AND originally, I thought there was no amp, that this was a DI to VSTs sort of thing. Telling him how to mike a cab won't help if there's no cab...

 

[BroKen_H]

BTW, if you cant tell if you're playing a B or an E, you have too much distortion. You need clarity of notes behind the wall of fuzz/distortion/overdrive.
OP, this statement is not directed at your sound. Your sound is starting to clear up nicely...Add the wall ^ ^ ^ and keep the distinction. That's the goal!

 

[Farview]

Okay.... here is my pet-peeve in this statement right here. "Too much distortion"... UGH... I have been playing and recording for 30 years and every time an engineer tells me that, I want to bean him across the head with my FX board. Guitarist, for all of their quirks, have worked on their sound and have found the sound that they like and that defines them. Asking them to change their sound to accommodate the engineers inability to record what he hears is no different then telling a drummer he has to play softer because he's causing distortion from the mics (I've had that happen). If we reduce our distortion to please the engineer or the producer, then we don't have the sound we want and we won't be happy with our work, because it will not be our sound, it will be the engineer's sound, the producers sound. As guitarist, we know our gear that is our yard. As an engineer, you know or should know your gear and how to use it, that's your yard. Stay out of my yard and i'll stay out of yours. You may look over my fence and tell me there is a better way to cut the grass, but I like the way I cut my grass and you don't know my lawn mower. Now if you want to use my mower, I'm going to advise you the best way to use it for the best results. Dig?

WHAT you hear coming out of the amp is what you should hear coming out of the control room speakers. If you don't, it's not the guitar players problem, it is the engineers problem.

Now to your recording issue..... Re-record the guitar track with your sound as you like to hear it coming from your amp. MIC it about 2 feet from the speaker cab, set your eq on the board to all flat, reduce your input gain. Remove any and all effects at the board, your effects should come from your guitar gear, not something processed at the board.

If you are using your line-out from your amp, don't. Regardless of what they tell you, it overdrives the input signal into the recording gear and gives you a "fuzzy" sound.

If you are using a Boss, Digitech or some other type of floor pedal board for your guitar effects, most of these have a USB port. Connect this unit to your computer, plug into your amp like you normally do. Change your output on the pedal board from the modeled amp you may have it set for to Line/headphone out. This is an internal control that you select. Now what you are doing is basically running your guitar sound with the pedal board direct to the recording software. Your PC or MAC and software should all say "Hey, you've connected a Boss GT-10, let me make that part of the gear available".... and tada! It should be nice and full with no recording "fuzzy-ness", I know, because I do it all the time.

This message brought to you buy an old guy who's been doing this crap a long time. Peace and all that.... TK

I did say "without hearing it, I can only guess". He is also using vsts or amp sims, not a real amp that you can mic from2 feet away.

The main problem with amp sims is by the time you dial the gain up to the point that you have enough compression, it gets all fuzzy and indistinct. If the OP wants a wash of white noise, he is certainly free to do that. But, since he is asking the question, I'm assuming he is unhappy with the result and unable to determine the cause. Thus my suggestion as a wild guess, based on my experience with amp sims and the people who are new to them.

If you have a JCM800, you can crank everything up to 10 and still have plenty of articulation. If you use those same settings on a pod with a JCM 800 sim, you will get a fuzzy, inarticulate sound until you back the gain down and put a comp/sustainer in front of it.

You and I both come from the world where everyone had their signature sound, that isnt so much the case anymore. Also, there are plenty of guys that confuse the way it feels to play with that sound with how it actually sounds. In that instance, I normally take a DI and let them play through their sound and just reamp the performance with something listenable later. I'm sure you have run into delusional musicians that think their tone is something other than what it actually is.

I've been doing this since the late 70's, so I share some of your old school mentallity. But you can only apply that logic to seasoned guys who habe gotten past the everyrhing on ten mentality.