Mixing down with Tascam 424- tape out vs line out

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first7letters

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I have been mixing down some projects to a DAW in a stereo mix using the line out on my Tascam 424 mkii so I can bring it back in on a new tape in stereo on tracks 1+2 giving me 3+4 to record new tracks on. I have been using the Tascam's mixer to eq the tracks during the mix down, and I especially like the sweep-able mid. I have read in a few places that while recording, it is best to go into 5+6 so it bypasses the mixer going straight to tape. But when I am mixing down using the built in mixer, this means that the signal is going through the mixer. As I understand it, the reason to bypass the mixer is because it's not the highest quality and could add some noise. So I could just use the 4 tape outs to go into the DAW, but then I would have to upgrade to a 4 channel interface, and if I wanted to eq while mixing down, I'd have to get an eq for each of the 4 channels. Would using the tape outs really make much difference in sound quality vs going through the built in mixer with the line out? Or is it more of a function of bypassing the preamp while recording that gives a cleaner sound? Or is it just a cassette tape recording so it doesn't much matter?
 
If you don't have a problem with the sound you are getting when going through the mixer, there is no reason to stop doing it. The incremental difference in noise is not going to be enough to be concerned about.

Now, if you wanted to use the tape outs and get a 4 input interface, you wouldn't have to get an outboard EQ for each channel, you could just use the EQ in the DAW. Since the tape outs bypass the mixer, you would need to use the mixer in the DAW to create a stereo mix anyway.
 
If you capture all four tracks separately to the DAW, you'll have way more options for mixing them, like better eq, reverbs etc. Going back in via the 5+6 inputs should bypass unnecessary electronics for a marginally cleaner transfer.

But if you're going to defeat the limitations of a cassette 4-track recorder to that degree, why are you using it at all?
 
bouldersoundguy said:
If you capture all four tracks separately to the DAW, you'll have way more options for mixing them, like better eq, reverbs etc. Going back in via the 5+6 inputs should bypass unnecessary electronics for a marginally cleaner transfer.

But if you're going to defeat the limitations of a cassette 4-track recorder to that degree, why are you using it at all?
Click to expand...
That is the golden question. While I am working around the limit of 4 tracks by mixing down in the DAW to get more like 6 tracks, I don't want to go down that slippery slope. Mostly because I like the sounds I am getting and I really like working with knobs and wires. And on the creative side, setting limitations will make me focus on writing and playing and working with limited tracks instead of getting stuck in editing and more limitless track options. Trying to find the sweet spot of getting the best out of what I have without spending too much on outboard gear. Plus my computer sucks. I think I will just continue mixing down in stereo... Thanks for the replies!
 
I've experimented with doing 4 individual outs to the interface and for me, if you do not plan to mix it back to the cassette (which is what I was doing), it totally ruins the feel of the cassette recording. Nothing meshes or glues together anymore and the feel is completely lost. However, putting it back on fixes that problem to some degree, but now I dont even like it even having that digital stage where the channels are isolated from the crosstalk. A good trick to maintain the character of the 4 track, is to bounce a 4 track stereo mix to VHS and then back to the 4 track for 2 more tracks. VHS is as good a quality as CD but you don't have a digital stage. Ive been loving using this technique!
 
Those are both valid arguments! And you’re right, the signal definitely doesn’t degrade with digital, I just prefer not to use it at all now as VHS gets virtually the same result quality wise without having to get my computer out.
VHS is totally hifi and has as a good a dynamic range as a CD.
I’m also not offering the right way to do it here, just my way. Using my vcr tucked under the 4 track means i don’t have to move or introduce the computer.
Plus, I’m using cassettes to sound distorted and degraded, as cassettes do. I like the working progress from the 4 track and the end result that comes from it (fuzzy as it is) is a better version of my songwriting than on the computer.
Speaking directly to the original poster, the quality of sound going out of tape outs and line outs is the same in theory, you just have less control and need to commit more with line outs. I personally miss not being able to use the EQ of the tascam using this tape out method. If you’re planning to go back to the 4 track, then youre concerned quality wise with generations, as you lose one every time you go back to the 4 track. Going to DAW or VHS saves you one generation loss you would get from ‘ping ponging’ tracks on your 4 track and you get to fill up all the tracks as well. Using other channels like 5-6 and 7-8 do bypass the mixer apparently, which should help introduce less noise again. My tascam 464 has a few extra inputs, so I’m not sure how many are on the 424... but you can be nifty and record a extra tracks using the channels 5-6 while recording your stereo mix back to the tape on 7-8 (or just simply on 1-2) to fit another new track with no generation loss in the mix to add perceived quality to the overall sound.
Losing one generation sounds fine to my ears and i usually go way beyond that.
Anyways, these are just my discoveries and may not be helpful to anyone else.
 
Crooktc said:
Those are both valid arguments! And you’re right, the signal definitely doesn’t degrade with digital, I just prefer not to use it at all now as VHS gets virtually the same result quality wise without having to get my computer out.
VHS is totally hifi and has as a good a dynamic range as a CD.
I’m also not offering the right way to do it here, just my way. Using my vcr tucked under the 4 track means i don’t have to move or introduce the computer.
Plus, I’m using cassettes to sound distorted and degraded, as cassettes do. I like the working progress from the 4 track and the end result that comes from it (fuzzy as it is) is a better version of my songwriting than on the computer.
Speaking directly to the original poster, the quality of sound going out of tape outs and line outs is the same in theory, you just have less control and need to commit more with line outs. I personally miss not being able to use the EQ of the tascam using this tape out method. If you’re planning to go back to the 4 track, then youre concerned quality wise with generations, as you lose one every time you go back to the 4 track. Going to DAW or VHS saves you one generation loss you would get from ‘ping ponging’ tracks on your 4 track and you get to fill up all the tracks as well. Using other channels like 5-6 and 7-8 do bypass the mixer apparently, which should help introduce less noise again. My tascam 464 has a few extra inputs, so I’m not sure how many are on the 424... but you can be nifty and record a extra tracks using the channels 5-6 while recording your stereo mix back to the tape on 7-8 (or just simply on 1-2) to fit another new track with no generation loss in the mix to add perceived quality to the overall sound.
Losing one generation sounds fine to my ears and i usually go way beyond that.
Anyways, these are just my discoveries and may not be helpful to anyone else.
Click to expand...
Have you had any luck reamping using only the tascam using the line out? I’ve been tempted to try it using the headphone jack out but we’ll see!
 
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