Well I'm sure someone knows how to resolve this. How in the world do I keep my tempo to my song after I mix down? Do I have to resort to record/play in a faster tempo, so that I have the tempo I want after the mixdown? I look forward to hearing from whoever can resolve this new problem for me.
Mixing Down - Tempo Slows Problem
- Thread starter chippy
- Start date
Angermeyer
New member
Is all slower or is it slowing down?
Are you doing this on a computer?
Are you doing this on a computer?
Blue Bear Sound
New member
What do you mean the tempo "slows down"? It can't slow down unless you played the song that way......
Or are you trying to sync to something without a sync stripe?
Need more info............. because as you've explained it, it's not making sense........!
Bruce
Or are you trying to sync to something without a sync stripe?
Need more info............. because as you've explained it, it's not making sense........!
Bruce
It sounds like he is saying everything is fine until he makes a stereo mix. If it is digital bounce, that sounds like an error in setting the sample rate. But if that is the case, the pitch should change as well as the tempo. Check and see if the key of your song is changing as well as the tempo.
To: littledog, Blue Bear Sound, & Angermeyer,
I'll give more info as requested. I'm playing and recording the song in the tempo I want in my keyboard. Once my song is finished in the keyboard, and fully recorded, then I'm using my TASCAM MF-PO1 multitrack recorder to record the song in track 1, and vocals in track 2. I'm using the correct type of tape cassette in the multitrack recorder. On playback, the tempo is still as I first recorded it in the keyboard. After the multi-track is done,
then I'm mixing down to my stereo and recording a final version in the tape casette in my stereo. It's that final version, when the stereo records from the multi-track, I've got a slower tempo.
Thanks.
I'll give more info as requested. I'm playing and recording the song in the tempo I want in my keyboard. Once my song is finished in the keyboard, and fully recorded, then I'm using my TASCAM MF-PO1 multitrack recorder to record the song in track 1, and vocals in track 2. I'm using the correct type of tape cassette in the multitrack recorder. On playback, the tempo is still as I first recorded it in the keyboard. After the multi-track is done,
then I'm mixing down to my stereo and recording a final version in the tape casette in my stereo. It's that final version, when the stereo records from the multi-track, I've got a slower tempo.
Thanks.
Angermeyer
New member
How much slower, if it's like half speed then somthings up with your mixdown. 
On the other hand mabye your stereo sucks and dosen't spin fast or evenly (bad motor). This usually results in the music slowing a speeding at random.
Mabye you tascam tape motor is slow.
I suspect your stereo.
you don't have anything in your signal chain from the tascam to the stereo right?
-Angermeyer
On the other hand mabye your stereo sucks and dosen't spin fast or evenly (bad motor). This usually results in the music slowing a speeding at random.
Mabye you tascam tape motor is slow.
I suspect your stereo.
you don't have anything in your signal chain from the tascam to the stereo right?
-Angermeyer
Blue Bear Sound
New member
How do you know it's slower? When you take that cassette back and play it on another machine??
I assume if you play back the final mix tape on the machine you recorded it on, it plays correctly, right?
If so, that's easy to explain... cassette decks generally don't have as precise a playback speed from machine to machine - usually the tolerance is up to 10% either way.... so if you record onto a machine whose tape speed is at the -10% range and playback that same tape on say your boombox whose playback speed is too fast by 10%, then you will hear a speed/pitch/tempo variation of about 20% - very noticeable...
Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do about this except to buy a cassette unit that isn't quite so "off".....
Mind you, it could also be that your mixdown cassette is just fine and everything you're playing it on for comparison is very off.......
I assume if you play back the final mix tape on the machine you recorded it on, it plays correctly, right?
If so, that's easy to explain... cassette decks generally don't have as precise a playback speed from machine to machine - usually the tolerance is up to 10% either way.... so if you record onto a machine whose tape speed is at the -10% range and playback that same tape on say your boombox whose playback speed is too fast by 10%, then you will hear a speed/pitch/tempo variation of about 20% - very noticeable...
Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do about this except to buy a cassette unit that isn't quite so "off".....
Mind you, it could also be that your mixdown cassette is just fine and everything you're playing it on for comparison is very off.......
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Mixing Down - Tempo Slower Problem
To Blue Bear Sound & Angermeyer,
Thanks for writing back. In reviewing both of your comments with this problem, I think the bottom line is, my stereo tape unit probably does not play in the same speed, and the final mix is a slow down. One thing I did not investigate was to play the final version through the mixer and see if it is slower. If it plays at the tempo I originally recorded in, then it would be the stereo.
On a different matter, I thought the final version of a mixdown would give me stereo sound, and I still have no output resembling any type of stereo sound. It's being mixed down into a stereo. When I play a standard music tape, it's stereo, but I can't get the same kind of output. I wonder if I need another type of RCA pins? I have the phono type.
Thanks for your thoughts on this. Probably not much I can do right now in that I can not upgrade to higher grade technology.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
To Blue Bear Sound & Angermeyer,
Thanks for writing back. In reviewing both of your comments with this problem, I think the bottom line is, my stereo tape unit probably does not play in the same speed, and the final mix is a slow down. One thing I did not investigate was to play the final version through the mixer and see if it is slower. If it plays at the tempo I originally recorded in, then it would be the stereo.
On a different matter, I thought the final version of a mixdown would give me stereo sound, and I still have no output resembling any type of stereo sound. It's being mixed down into a stereo. When I play a standard music tape, it's stereo, but I can't get the same kind of output. I wonder if I need another type of RCA pins? I have the phono type.
Thanks for your thoughts on this. Probably not much I can do right now in that I can not upgrade to higher grade technology.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
When you say it is not stereo is it still on both Left and right? Is is it just not stereo enough?
Are you panning any of the tracks on the mixer? That is the only way to have any stereo effect without stereo micing or stereo effects units.
Are you panning any of the tracks on the mixer? That is the only way to have any stereo effect without stereo micing or stereo effects units.
Mixing Down - Tempo Slow Problem
Chippy Replying to TexasRoadKill's ?'s - "
When you say it is not stereo is it still on both Left and right? Is is it just not stereo enough?
Yeah Tex man. It's definitely coming out both the left and right speakers and mixed. I've panned and used my level volumes during the mix so that I didn't have distortion and had the vocals and instrumental in balance. Then I mix down through the stereo, listen to it on stereo and it's not the stereo sound; not clear like. Sort of like listening to my song coming off of AM radio.
Are you panning any of the tracks on the mixer? The only thing I think I'm suppose to do with my pan knobs is keep em in the middle - both for trk(1) & trk(2). Maybe this is my blunder. Am I suppose to swing one pan knob far left (like instrumental) and then, the trk(2) pan knob (vocal) far right or something? I thought I'm suppose to keep them in the middle. Probably I've overlooked something in my instuction manual, as I only just purchased my multitrack mixer.
TexasRoadKill - Thanks for writing and helping me out. I have to submit tapes in to this evaluator and the audio is always "crap" more or less - am radio sounding.
Can't wait to hear about what you know on this. Thanks.
Chippy
Chippy Replying to TexasRoadKill's ?'s - "
When you say it is not stereo is it still on both Left and right? Is is it just not stereo enough?
Yeah Tex man. It's definitely coming out both the left and right speakers and mixed. I've panned and used my level volumes during the mix so that I didn't have distortion and had the vocals and instrumental in balance. Then I mix down through the stereo, listen to it on stereo and it's not the stereo sound; not clear like. Sort of like listening to my song coming off of AM radio.
Are you panning any of the tracks on the mixer? The only thing I think I'm suppose to do with my pan knobs is keep em in the middle - both for trk(1) & trk(2). Maybe this is my blunder. Am I suppose to swing one pan knob far left (like instrumental) and then, the trk(2) pan knob (vocal) far right or something? I thought I'm suppose to keep them in the middle. Probably I've overlooked something in my instuction manual, as I only just purchased my multitrack mixer.
TexasRoadKill - Thanks for writing and helping me out. I have to submit tapes in to this evaluator and the audio is always "crap" more or less - am radio sounding.
Can't wait to hear about what you know on this. Thanks.
Chippy
A quick look at the TASCAM MF-PO1 tells me it records one track at a time.
Since your recording your keys on 1 track and your vocals on another, your not starting off on the best ground for stereo. (This depends on the style and what you want it to sound like of course.) But your options right now are limited.
- vocals and keyboard dead center - the way you have it now. Coming out both speakers sure, but not really 'stereo' sounding.
- vocals panned 11:00, keys 1:00. Little more stereo, but weird.
- vocals panned full left, keys panned full right - probably disjointed sound, depending on your style.
I notice you say 'Once my song is finished in the keyboard...'
So I'm assuming your recording it in the keyboards memory, and then sending it out to the 4track.
So what I propose is:
(I also assume your keyboard has a stereo output, L / R. If not there are other things that can be done)
- Record the left output of the keyboard onto track one of the tascam
- Rewind the tape, record the left output of the keyboard onto track two of the tascam.
- Record your vocals on track three.
Hook up the stereo outs of the 4-track to the stereo ins on your cassette stereo.
Pan the key's 9:00 and 3:00, play with the volumes. Tweek the panning to taste though.
Leave the vocals centered.
This should give you a better stereo field.
Since your recording your keys on 1 track and your vocals on another, your not starting off on the best ground for stereo. (This depends on the style and what you want it to sound like of course.) But your options right now are limited.
- vocals and keyboard dead center - the way you have it now. Coming out both speakers sure, but not really 'stereo' sounding.
- vocals panned 11:00, keys 1:00. Little more stereo, but weird.
- vocals panned full left, keys panned full right - probably disjointed sound, depending on your style.
I notice you say 'Once my song is finished in the keyboard...'
So I'm assuming your recording it in the keyboards memory, and then sending it out to the 4track.
So what I propose is:
(I also assume your keyboard has a stereo output, L / R. If not there are other things that can be done)
- Record the left output of the keyboard onto track one of the tascam
- Rewind the tape, record the left output of the keyboard onto track two of the tascam.
- Record your vocals on track three.
Hook up the stereo outs of the 4-track to the stereo ins on your cassette stereo.
Pan the key's 9:00 and 3:00, play with the volumes. Tweek the panning to taste though.
Leave the vocals centered.
This should give you a better stereo field.
Thought I should add. What kind of stereo representation you get from the keys, will depend a lot on the quality of its samples. Panning equal opposite in both volume and pan may not get you much further.
Depends on the quality of the stereo sample of the patch in your keys. But, adjusting the volume levels of each and the panning should get you somewhere there, even if your keys are not the greatest. If you have any outboard gear, especially a reverb, that would open up many more possibilities.
Depends on the quality of the stereo sample of the patch in your keys. But, adjusting the volume levels of each and the panning should get you somewhere there, even if your keys are not the greatest. If you have any outboard gear, especially a reverb, that would open up many more possibilities.
Mixing Down - Slower Tempo
Emeric,
Thanks for your technique which is quite more than what I know, but should improve my audio final recording. I am not sure on one comment you mentioned:
You said, " Hook up the stereo outs of the 4-track to the stereo ins on your cassette stereo."
My outjacks on my mixer will only hook into an auxillary jack in the stereo. I don't have a stereo in jack.
Emeric,
Thanks for your technique which is quite more than what I know, but should improve my audio final recording. I am not sure on one comment you mentioned:
You said, " Hook up the stereo outs of the 4-track to the stereo ins on your cassette stereo."
My outjacks on my mixer will only hook into an auxillary jack in the stereo. I don't have a stereo in jack.
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
How exactly are you recording your music? If you are sending all the tracks to the recorder at once and it only does one channel than it will just be mono. There are some tricks you can do like adding a touch of stereo delay or reverb with an effects processor to give it a stereo image.
If you can get 3 tracks of music layed down then you will at least have something to pan and give it a more obvious stereo feel. With the gear you have right now you are going to be pretty limited.
To be completely honest with a cassette multitrack it is very difficult to get the type of results that make people say wow. It's not impossible but you have to be able to ring out every bit of performance out of a severly limited format. Even when used to it's fullest potential a great casette recording is still usually considered "not bad for cassette."
It's impossible to say without hearing your recordings but you may have to lower your expectations in line with your gear.
If you can get 3 tracks of music layed down then you will at least have something to pan and give it a more obvious stereo feel. With the gear you have right now you are going to be pretty limited.
To be completely honest with a cassette multitrack it is very difficult to get the type of results that make people say wow. It's not impossible but you have to be able to ring out every bit of performance out of a severly limited format. Even when used to it's fullest potential a great casette recording is still usually considered "not bad for cassette."
It's impossible to say without hearing your recordings but you may have to lower your expectations in line with your gear.
Mixing Down - Tempo & Audio
TexasRoadKill,
I reply to your questions and comments, and you are educating me on this, for which I am greatly appreciative:
"How exactly are you recording your music? If you are sending all the tracks to the recorder at once and it only does one channel than it will just be mono." -
I did not know this. Yes, I have five recording tracks in my keyboard. I recorded all five tracks with various instrumental parts, and composed this song. But that's how I do my music. Since my mixer has four tracks, I guess I could compose three instruments in a song, and record each one individually in the multi-track, leaving trk4 in the multi-track for vocals. I also heard from another homerecording member who mentioned, that if I recorded my song on keyboard, I could record the song on trk1, rewind and record the song on trk2, and then vocals on trk3 - with some specifications he made about using the pan knobs in doing this. I did not know that would cause a mono audio if my entire song was recorded on trk1. What gets me is the instruction manual mentioned for a guitar - record trk1, and vocals trk2 - and so, that's all I knew on doing this. Your comment has increased my learning in this to work with all four trks on my multi-trk.
"There are some tricks you can do like adding a touch of stereo delay or reverb with an effects processor to give it a stereo image."
Would love to hear more on what you know, if you feel up to talkin bout it; instruction manuals don't really go into too much explaination, and leave the user to just experimenting around with the darn thing.
"If you can get 3 tracks of music layed down then you will at least have something to pan and give it a more obvious stereo feel." - Thanks. I'll need to use that counter and get my instrumental to line up with the other instrumentals in my songs.
"With the gear you have right now you are going to be pretty limited." - Yeah I know. However, my present needs at the moment, do not really require anything sophisticated right now. However, I knew I wasn't doing something right with that multi-track and my recording, and I needed to learn more about this, because my needs right now is just to record a final tape that will sound better than crap outside noise, and am-mono noise. I think from what you've told me and the other homerecording members, it will be possible to overcome am-mono to something alittle closer to stereo - though not the best in sophisticative technology. That will work for right now.
Thank you for helping me.
Chippy
TexasRoadKill,
I reply to your questions and comments, and you are educating me on this, for which I am greatly appreciative:
"How exactly are you recording your music? If you are sending all the tracks to the recorder at once and it only does one channel than it will just be mono." -
I did not know this. Yes, I have five recording tracks in my keyboard. I recorded all five tracks with various instrumental parts, and composed this song. But that's how I do my music. Since my mixer has four tracks, I guess I could compose three instruments in a song, and record each one individually in the multi-track, leaving trk4 in the multi-track for vocals. I also heard from another homerecording member who mentioned, that if I recorded my song on keyboard, I could record the song on trk1, rewind and record the song on trk2, and then vocals on trk3 - with some specifications he made about using the pan knobs in doing this. I did not know that would cause a mono audio if my entire song was recorded on trk1. What gets me is the instruction manual mentioned for a guitar - record trk1, and vocals trk2 - and so, that's all I knew on doing this. Your comment has increased my learning in this to work with all four trks on my multi-trk.
"There are some tricks you can do like adding a touch of stereo delay or reverb with an effects processor to give it a stereo image."
Would love to hear more on what you know, if you feel up to talkin bout it; instruction manuals don't really go into too much explaination, and leave the user to just experimenting around with the darn thing.
"If you can get 3 tracks of music layed down then you will at least have something to pan and give it a more obvious stereo feel." - Thanks. I'll need to use that counter and get my instrumental to line up with the other instrumentals in my songs.
"With the gear you have right now you are going to be pretty limited." - Yeah I know. However, my present needs at the moment, do not really require anything sophisticated right now. However, I knew I wasn't doing something right with that multi-track and my recording, and I needed to learn more about this, because my needs right now is just to record a final tape that will sound better than crap outside noise, and am-mono noise. I think from what you've told me and the other homerecording members, it will be possible to overcome am-mono to something alittle closer to stereo - though not the best in sophisticative technology. That will work for right now.
Thank you for helping me.
Chippy