I didnt say it GONZO did, Fairview I know your an intelligent person trust me I thought the same way you did until I TRIED it. Then I researched to learn the difference and the techniques and the benefits. Just try it. Take an old mix and gain stage it properly Kick and snare to taste (round -6 & -8) the rest at analog VU Meter Level (-18 RMS & peak -10dbFS) that -8 crest you mention wont even matter at the Master Mix Bus when all the sounds are bussed or sent to one master track But ALLLLL that headroom will matter at that Master Mix Bus stage why? cuz all the levels have to add up to that Master Mix Bus (I laugh when I see Pro's Eng Master Mix Bus hitting 0) just give it a try believe me. Dose it really make sense to say that the only time you need to worry bout level is when you using analog equip? Are you listening to headphones or Monitors (analog). Your audio interface that hooked up to your computer (analog). Most dont even know the manuals to thier Digital/Analog interfaces even tell you the best level for digital. Since your levels are pumping above -6, and -3 are you "really" hearing the true representation of the sound and if you are is it at its best quality or worst? ALL PLUGINS are molded after hardware in some form or fashion (analog was first not Digital) even if the are quote on quote "digital" the characteristics are that of analog equipment no matter how you flip it. So the benefits of using analog techniques in a digital domain would render amazing results ( I mean isnt that what we are going for anyway in the Digital world a replica or some type parallel to the analog world. Some how to make our sounds REAL!as if done in the analog domain)
First of all, I've been doing this for almost 30 years, I have tried it. You are simply misunderstanding what I'm saying. The harshness from running your levels too hot happens on the analog side, not the digital side. Yes, you are listening through analog monitors, but if you have the level turned down (on the analog side, not the digital side) the problem goes away.
Reason why ITB mixes do not sound as good OTB, IMHO the main points
1.) Head Room - VU meter 0 equals -20 dbFS Yes! -20 dBFS not even -18.
It depends how your converters are calibrated. Motu calibrates so line level = -15dbfs. This varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Some converters can be user calibrated.
Thas not the NS-10s buddy believe me its that SSL. The analog mixer gives instant gain staging. (You ever tried to over drive a SSL board? its almost impossible no matter how high the levels it still sounds good its an instant & constant headroom gain staging component. We dont have that in the digital world we have to create it. Hence the idea of gain staging is only associated with the DIGITAL DOMAIN).
The clarity of NS-10's?????!!!! Anyway, I have overdriven an SSL, it doesn't sound as good as overdriving a Neve, but the point of an SSL is clarity and slickness, while the point of a Neve is 'character' and 'mojo'.
2.) Analog - Harmonics & Sound & Distortion & Color - Believe it or not all these things change with different amounts of "headroom" thas available the more headroom you have the more of these characteristics take shape and take shape PERFECTLY. Less Headroom less "good" harmonic sound, with high level you start destroying the harmonics which inturn destroys the analog sound. (term by the other fellow. "yellow is the new red") A great saying! The "good" analog distortion becomes bad distortion which takes away from the color of an analog modeling domain. Grab any SSL modeled plugin Comp, Channel, EQ, I prefer the Waves NLS Channel (Mike SSL option, Mic input pressed) and send it a signal hitting 0 dBFS HORRIBLE, OMG TURN IT OFF!!! Then take the same signal and trim the sound before it goes into the plugin till you see the VU meter in the plugin barely grazing 0 AAAHHH!!! AMAZING DIFF!
Yes, but the peak level isn't what creates this distortion and coloration, it's the average level. If the average level is too high in the analog domain, everything starts sounding pinched and harsh. The peak level doesn't matter as much because most analog circuitry is capable of handling high volume, short term transients without a problem.
3.) Analog Warmth - Analog warmth is another reason ITB sound less attractive. That warmth the full rich sound in analog world is unprecedented. Digital is sharp & brittle and weightless no rich sound at all. But with some pretty good analog modeled saturation plugins the warmth can be artificially added but same rules apply. Tape saturation is an analog characteristics try over driving a saturation plugins and it sounds terrible. You always find your self leveling the input to a saturation plugin so the plugin wont distort the heck out of your sound and change it so much to where it sounds as if your entire session is a metallic record. The same rules would apply for the entire DAW digital domain for every track, every mix every time.
This is just silly. Digital doesn't sound bad or characterless, cheap digital recorded poorly does. Can you tell the difference between an album that was recorded analog vs. one that was recorded digitally by listening to the CD? If you can, than digital isn't the problem, since you are listening to a digital recording of an analog one and the 'analog goodness' wasn't completely stripped by the digitization process.
I've typed this a thousand times before, so I will give the readers digest version. If you want the full version, search this forum or google one of my gain staging articles.
When recording, record at line level. That is the level that all the analog equipment in the chain is designed to perform best. Line level is 0dbVU. VU meters are slow and do not pick up transients, because (within reason) they are not important in the analog gain staging process.
Unfortunately, a lot of equipment doesn't come with analog VU meters, so you are stuck with the ones in the DAW. These are peaking meters and really only measure the peak power with any accuracy. This is because the peak level is what is important in the digital world. As long as you are in the box, all you have to worry about is being sufficiently above the noise floor and below -0dbfs.
All the trouble and confusion comes in when you try to go between the two worlds.
Say your converters are calibrated to -18dbfs = line level. Things like distorted guitars and violins recorded at 0dbVU on the preamp meters would have a level bouncing around -18dbfs on the DAW meters. Instruments like piano would be up around -10dbfs, even though the preamp meters would read 0dbVU. Instruments like drums that hit 0dbVU would have a good chance of clipping the meters in the DAW. This is because the crest factor of all these instruments is different. A violin has no percussive transient, so it's average and peak level are pretty close to each other. A snare drum has a huge initial transient and a very short, much quieter decay, so it's peak is way above it's average level.
Remember, on the analog side, average level is what is important and on the digital side, peak level is what is important.
So, there is the delema. How do you know what level on what meter to record anything at? The simple answer is, if you have both analog and digital meters, to record everything at 0dbVU while watching that you don't go over 0dbFS.
If you only have digital meters, then set the recording levels for a sustained note at -18dbfs (or what ever your converters are calibrated to) and just keep an eye out for any transients that might be getting too close to 0dbfs. For drums, I tend to set the level so it peaks at -6dbfs on the hardest hits,
not because recording hotter that that for drums would sound bad, but just so there is a buffer zone for when the drummer gets a little too happy.
I've got a session staring up in a few minutes, so I've got to stop for now. But just one more thing about your advice that the mix should be averaging about -18dbfs rms (I agree with that) and peaking at -10dbfs. Most commercial CDs have more of a difference between the peak and RMS than you are describing. (if you just brought that mix up to peak at 0dbfs, the average would be a -8dbfs) Having peaks up dancing around -4dbfs or so would be more like it for a dense mix. If it were something like acoustic guitar, the rms level would have to drop a lot to keep the peaks at -10dbfs because of the nature of the instrument.
That is the biggest point of all: The peak to average recording level changes with the nature of each instrument you are trying to track or mix. Which is why most of the answers to questions about audio are "it depends".
....WAIT! Now am i saying every track should be balanced off of the acoustic gtr? NOOO!!! Am i saying that gain staging should start with the most quiets instrument? NO!... I am saying you should start the gain staging with the LOUDEST instrument in the mix! The Kick & Snare hence why my first statement I said Kick and snare -6 to -8 dbFS PEAK! WHY? cause its the LOUDEST instrument in the mix!
ok send it off to the mastering eng and let him get the same loudness level as the previous mix duh! lol. Listen to before & after mix and Before & after Master on Both and tell me what you think.. I DARE YOU lol!