Mix sounded great on monitors then...

N

nay

New member
I don't understand. I recorded a band (a friend's band) a few weeks ago and just got around to mixing one song today. He and I sat and worked for a few hours using Vegas and Pro Tools (free edition). We ended up getting a decent sounding demo out of it (we impressed ourselves at least). I mixed straight from my soundcard SBLive out into a Samson servo120 and then through my Yamaha NS-10's. Great sounding demo. BUT... when played back on every other system IT SUCKS... not just sucks but sounds HORRIBLE... sounds like we didn't even mix the damn thing. Where did I go wrong? (Sorry bout the little rant here).

nay
 
Burn the ns10's That's what your problem is. Yamaha claims they are the standard, but they sound like poo! The also wear out you ears faster!
 
Well, yes and no....

Yes - the NS-10s really suck, but no - that's not the whole picture. The whole thing about monitors is that you can use basically ANYTHING (even Auratones!) to monitor with - as long as you learn how to translate your mixes on them. The NS-10s are mid-heavy, bass-shy, (also nasally??, dull, harsh, and 100 other different qualities) - yet you can still on mix on them (although I personally wouldn't!) if you learn how to make your mix sound "right" on them so that they sound "right" on other systems.

So specifically on the NS-10s - being bass-shy, if you boost bass in your mix to compensate, suddenly your mix is bass-heavy on all other systems ('cept maybe a blaster). Ditto for mids and highs....

To learn mix translation on your monitors, the best thing to do is listen to many (commercial) CDs that you like and hear where the difficiencies are, then you can make intelligent compensation decisions. So for example, a dance track will not kick you in the chest when listening on NS-10s - but that is to be expected and so you don't try to adjust your mix so that it does! The better the monitors (and more expensive, generally!) the less you may need to learn mix translation.

Good luck... :)
Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
not so fast...

there's a lot more going on here that just the monitors. when mastering is concerned, it's a Monitor/Room combination. the room response (Modal, reflections, and diffusion) determine what your hearing.

if you're not equipped to treat and equalize your room, then spend your time listening to very similar music types to what you're mastering. set yourself up so you can listen to them from the same monitors and can switch quickly.

next: mix, rest, listen, tweak... then start over.

also, learn the art of a single DB once you feel your close. then make a copy and listen on several other systems. note where you feel the problem(s) is, and tweak (art of a single DB) there.

you'll finally get there.

one more thing, if you get another set of monitors without treating your room, you'll not have accomplished much. a good room is as much or more important than a really good set of monitors.

-kPreston-
 
Funny...

The funny thing is bass wasn't my problem. That and the drums were the only things that sounded decent. The guitars (rythm and lead) just mudded out with the vocals. Just didn't sound right. As far as the NS-10s they may not be the best... but for the price they weren't bad. I want to do the best recording/mastering I can do but I realize that to a point I'm limited by my equipment. I think the main thing I need is more experience. This was just the first time I've had something sound this terrible on home stereo's and such.



nay
 
Hey Sonixx... all valid points and very well taken, but he was talking about mixing, not mastering. The whole point of using nearfields for mixing is to minimize the room response (because your sound field is within 3-4 feet) - this is why mix translation can be learned. Console reflections will have a bigger impact on the nearfield response than the rest of the room will.

For mastering decisions, the typical mastering house will have an acoustically balanced room, and would have monitors mounted in a typical listening configuration, rather than a nearfield configuration.

Bruce
 
bvaleria,

IMO, once the recording seems close to what you want, then you've mastered (small m) it, regardless of what you call it. yea, it's not a seasoned listen in a treated room, but a scaled down search for a good mix. i'm guessing here, but i doubt there is much of a difference between mixing and mastering. i agree with you, but my only point is that the room plays a major role and shouldn't be discounted.

the early reflections from the console may be a major player and maybe not, it depends on his setup. whether or not the console reflections are a major contributor depends on speaker placement, console placement, room dimensions and shape, flooring, furniture, and so on. these thing do matter, whether mixing or mastering.

-kp-
 
Yes... except the room acoustics are much less of a factor in a nearfield setup - the majority of the soundfield is directed towards you ears, making the room less of a factor to a considerable degree. So much so that I suspect Nay's mixing problem have little to do with the room, and a lot more to do with learning his monitors defiencies and compensating for them....

I don't disagree with you, all things being equal great monitors will sound like crap in a bad room, but I just think you're over-stressing the room factor in this particular situation...

We're saying the same stuff... just with slightly different emphasis! :D

Bruce
 
They are all factors - Nay - you've got to make NS10's bark if you want to be near right with them :)

cheers
John
 
you too

I mix on NS10ms and they are some awesome monitors. Although I use them in conjunction with two subwoofers.

I also had that problem of guitar and vocals at first. If the vocals sound nice on ns10ms, they will jump out at you on almost any other system. same thing with guitar.

some pieces of advice:

listen to a well recorded cd for about 30 minutes and then mix: (digido.com). After doing this, i noticed that my vocals had to much honk, and I took the right steps(eq) to remove this.

Don't ever mix the same day you track.( Sonusman). Your mix will not sound as good.

Also from sonusman. do different mixes. I also use vegas, and it is not at all space consuming to save many different mixes.

after mixing right in front of the monitors, go back and listen in your favorite spot. At this time, also listen and compare to your fav records.(cyanJaguar) I like to lie on my couch, reading a book, behind the monitors, and then put the mix in a playlist and just have it play unexpectedly after, say andrea bocelli or whitney houston. You really notice things then.

------------------
connect a pair of computer speakers and send your vegas output through them from time to time to see how it will sound on another system.


peace and good luck
 
CJ.............. you use NS10s?????????? *eeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwww*!!!!!!!!! :eek:

You'll hurt your ears doin' that!!!!!! :D :D

Good advice though... :)

Bruce
 
ya....... I've found U should never do all the mixing for one song at once, make sure U take some breaks to let your ears rest. bout every hour or 45 take a 5-10 min break...... I've found this helps me keep a better mix the whole time I'm mixin..... I've found mixing the whole song all at one long sitting gives bad results, I like takin breaks to let my ears rest.

Hope that helps,

Sabith
 
mix translation

Hey!

Y'all said some stuff about learning mix translation concerning monitors, but I haven't seen anything about it concerning rooms...is that just like an assumed no brainer thing or not valid or what?

Also, what is a "typical listening configuration" as you put it? Are you talking about typical in a mastering house, or typical in your house or my house?

I'm just trying to figure out the nomenclature so I can get more out of what you guys are saying.

D out INTOJ
 
hey BV,

you are absolutely right. I listened to radio on my ns10ms for a couple of hours, and then went out to buy something, and my ears ACHED.

it was either the ns10ms or the terrible cold air that day.
:)
 
Oh my god........

Over-compressed, frequency-bandwidth-limited radio music listened thru NS-10s???????????

:eek: Big yikes!

Stop the torture!!!!

:D

Bruce
 
Appreciate...

I appreciate everyone's input. When I did that first mix I followed the "rules" of Sonusman. I mixed actually about 4 weeks after tracking (finals were in between)... took breaks and listened to other cd's and such. Since that mix I have learned a little more how the monitors sound. Being that I'm doing this "demo" in my basement mastering will also be done in my basement. Hopefully, I will post it to the MP3 clinic and get you guys to critique my progress... hopeful progress. Thanks again.

nay
 
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