Mix It Like A Record - My review...

Dr. Jeep

New member
My MILAR DVD came in and I spent the weekend watching it - about 2 times -then jumping to sections that interested me the most.

To preface this review, let me say that I have had experience recording and mixing in a major studio on a SSL - not as an engineer but as an artist. I know what a big studio can bring to the table when run by pros and how that experience can humble you. You think you kind of know how to mix then you come to find out you don't know anything. I don't pretend to be an engineer. My skills are namely in song writing and performance, not engineering or mixing, hence the interest in Charles Dye's DVD. I run ProTools LE through a Mbox at home. I have been an amateur mixer for about 5 years. Needless to say, I was tired of going nowhere with my sound, finding that I could do nothing to increase the quality of my recordings, and it never sounded close to a record at all. I am not naive to think a DVD is the answer - just always wanting to know more about things that I am passionate about. Enough of that bullshit - onto the review.

First off - the DVD is worth the money. Not because it gives you some magic formula to mix by. It just helps you understand the mix in a DAW environment. From saturation/distortion to automation based on dynamics and emotion of a mix - Dye really demistifies the mixing process.

Now, Dye's method does rely heavily on plugins - but learning what those plugins do - how to set them up - that is invaluable. I new the basics, but Dye really shows you how to maximize them and get the best results. I don't have but third of the ones he uses - but you get the idea and its not about a particular plugin but using something similar to arrive at those results.

And I need to add that Dye uses one song throughout the mix. So keep in mind this is one example of a mix - not YOUR song. You need to think how some of the methods can apply to your style or song. He is giving basic guidelines. I found that it more confirmed what I thought in some areas, EQ'ing in particular. Same for automation - how to really make a mix progressivly move along and deliver an emotion and resolve.

Between the setup of effects, the processing of instruments and voice, and the automation - Dye brings the mix together to a pro standard. I believe that some of these methods will immediately help the average mixer. For those who know more - it may seem remedial. For the rest of us, well we need the help!

Plus, I think Dye's opinions on mixing, the approach, the lack of rules - as in, find your own style and embrace it, that was great. There is NO such way to mix something perfectly. You can emulate a style and use proven tips to get a pro sound - but its not the only thing that goes into a song. He encourages you to do things against the grain, break rules, use old rules to new ends. He is also more about emotional impact than sheer technical obsession. I have heard this from other engineers - so it was good to see that its held as a good practice by Dye himself.


Ok - some have flamed the production style. Yes, it was a little cheesy at times. Over processing the video, trying to be edgy and shit, whatever. But the locations were cool, used to good effect. It kept you interested. They need to ditch the shitty backgound music during Dye's discourse on techniques. It got annoying. But other than that, it's a indie produced instructional DVD appealing to the "rock" audience. I guess that was a style they were after. What's important is what's on the DVD - a cool sit in session with a pro engineer.

So, if you got the money, I think its a good investment. I started using some of the techniques on a dead mix and found it shaping up great.
 
Jeeps,

I couldn't agree more. MiLaR is a great resource for anyone who wants to improve their mixing skills. Whether they use Protools, or own all those plug-ins, or not. I use Sonar and I found it very valuable too. Definitely worth the money for anyone who's serious about this stuff.

--Ethan
 
Yeah - If you are interested in hearing and seeing how people get a pro sound in the DAW world - you have to check it out. People with less than an PT HD system have to be a bit creative to get similar results due to processing power and plug in resources, but it isn't impossible. Charles is way cool to share those secrets.
 
Cool

Dr. Jeep said:
Yeah - If you are interested in hearing and seeing how people get a pro sound in the DAW world - you have to check it out. People with less than an PT HD system have to be a bit creative to get similar results due to processing power and plug in resources, but it isn't impossible. Charles is way cool to share those secrets.

Thanks for a great review. I am currently working through John Keane's 2004 edition of "The Musician's Guide to ProTools". This is a really good book, with great common sense tutorials and a CD with pro-tools sessions to mix and fix galore. Once I finish that, I will look for more advanced tutorials and this sounds like a good one. I will then be re-mixing my band's 11 song, 24 track, 5 piece rock album, which will be a huge learning tool in itself.

Sush
 
I just started watching this too.
The biggest thing I got from it so far is that "Neve" is actually pronounced "Neev". Wierd.

Actually, it is a cool DVD. I thought it was a little strange to see the same bunch of plug-ins getting thrown on every track. Like 5 or 6 on every track. Seems wierd to me. Oh well....what the hell do I know, I didn't even know how to pronounce "Neve". Maybe it's just because I think Neve Campbell is pretty hot. :rolleyes:
 
Wow I thought it was pronounced like Neve Campbell also, damn I feel like an idiot. So while we're at it I've heard it "NEW man" and "NOY(like toy)men" which is correct? And if anyone ever wants to talk to Charles go over to gearslutz.com he's over there all the time, he even showed up to the gearslutz NAMM party which any and everyone was invited to. Man it'd be cool to pick his brain for an evening.
 
man that thing could be 20 minutes without that retarded cheeseball artsy phartsy silly ass first day with a video editor tricks

good video though!
 
I think the content outweighs the stylization. True about the video editing filters - overkill. My first week on the Avid got that out of my system.
 
it's prenounced as ''noymahn''.

now how do you say ''neve''?


oh ontopic: how much is that dvd?
 
Now...what would you guys recommend to somebody who is just starting. Would you recommend something like that or something more simplified for novices?
 
I believe the DVD is 140 US. And I always called it Neve like Neve Campbell, like N"eh"ve instead of Neeve which is aparently how its really pronounced.
 
metalhead28 said:
I thought it was a little strange to see the same bunch of plug-ins getting thrown on every track. Like 5 or 6 on every track. Seems wierd to me.

Recently we had to take our PT HD system to Sweetwater to have it serviced and they pulled up some of my sessions and almost crapped themselves because of the huge track, buss and plugin count. I think I was at about 70 tracks, 30 busses and 180 plugins on that song.

Generally speaking, that's how most serious mixers roll. Pluggo time.
 
Plugz make the sound in the DAW - I have found to create the slightest illusion of "naturalism" with sound requires some plug in power.

Needless effects are another story - I am talking about sound shaping.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Recently we had to take our PT HD system to Sweetwater to have it serviced and they pulled up some of my sessions and almost crapped themselves because of the huge track, buss and plugin count. I think I was at about 70 tracks, 30 busses and 180 plugins on that song.

Generally speaking, that's how most serious mixers roll. Pluggo time.


yeah,let's just process the crap outta everything and we'll be ok!

I'm I the only one that thinks that might not be the way to go?

I mean unless you're gonna do reaaaaly slick pop music. :D
 
Mo-Kay said:
yeah,let's just process the crap outta everything and we'll be ok!

No, the idea is to use as much or little processing as necessary to get the sound the client is looking for.

I find the subtle use of phase reversal, time delay, compression, EQ, echo, detuning and so forth to be useful for achieving the production sound I'm looking for.

Mo-Kay said:
I'm I the only one that thinks that might not be the way to go?

Nope, there are plenty of people that think like that. I'm just not generally one of them (nor, judging by interviews/inside knowledge, are many of today's top mixing engineers... go figure).

That's the beauty of AE, there is no one right or wrong way to do things. The truth is that if it sounds good nobody gives a damn how many or how few pluggos you used. Truly the end justifies the means.
 
man i dont know bout you guys but......

He must of had a custom hd 3 system because HD doesnt freeze, and that was alot of damn plugs to be using.
 
Mo-Kay said:
yeah,let's just process the crap outta everything and we'll be ok!

I'm I the only one that thinks that might not be the way to go? :D

No Mo-Kay, youa re not alone. We rely too much on effects processing htese days. I am a fan of letting the band, singer/songwriter, etc. sound like themselves. Whether that calls for a lot of effects, so be it. But there is nothing worse than listening to almost every major-label record these days and know that 3/4's of the band's that "recorded" them can't pull it off live. THAT is the BAD THING that PT did to musicians...they can cut/paste and rely on that too much! What ever happened to having a band/solo act/etc. playa song all the wya through and use THAT...warts and all. There are MANY, MANY great recordings that followed that mantra---mostly form the 60's and 70's.

Now keep in mind I am coming form a rock/alt/metal band viewpoint. Not mneaning to bash anyone's music, 'cause that is what we (musicians, enginers, etc) do this for---the love of music!
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
The truth is that if it sounds good nobody gives a damn how many or how few pluggos you used. Truly the end justifies the means.

But to that I say, is it really a GOOD thing for a band to record an album using all the plugs/effects/processing available to the point that they never even play a song ALL THE WAY THROUGH while recording...? Don't you fel that if a band/solo artist/etc. can't pull off a song while recording, we are getting Milli Vanilli'd. I want recordings that I do to represent the band and what they sound like.

But I do agree that effects/pluggins used "right" will almost always enhance a recording....but I guess "right" is always an objective opinion, though?
 
MiLaR Question

I bought the MiLaR DVD and give it a hearty thumbs up.

A question for those of you, like me, who use Sonar, not Pro Tools.

McDSP's AC-1 is TDM only, correct? What VST or DX plug would be a good replacement for AC-1. I'm thinking maybe PSP Vintage Warmer, not the same beast but close maybe yeah? Would unlinking PSP Vintage Warmer yield similar results as the multi mono mode for AC-1?

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much.

Bart
 
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