Mix harmonys centred vs spread

[pure.fusion]

Hi all,

A quick question to perhaps spark some discussion.

If you mix (for example) 4 vocal harmonys when they are all centred, is there some engineering rule of thumb to say that those same levels will work when you pan some of them to get some spread?

FM

 

[grimtraveller]

This is what confuses me when people say that if you get a mix sounding good in mono it will sound good once you pan it out to stereo. I can't see how the levels won't change because all the relationships change.
There again, what do I know ?

 

[Farview]

The levels will work, but the result will feel different. With the harmonies panned center, they will become part of the main vocal and it will become one unified then. with the harmonies panned out, they will separate from the main vocal and become a bed for it. As usual with audio, what you do depends on what you want the end result to feel like.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I always looked at it like there are several ways that you can separate things within a mix.
One is frequency range. A kick wont interfere with a cymbal, for example.
One is distance. Using reverb or room ambience to set one thing behind another can help to set them apart.
The other is panning. Two guitars that would otherwise 'clash' won't if they are panned wide apart.

I always took the 'if it works in mono' idea as a kind of loose rule; The mix doesn't have to sound great in mono, but if it does, your life is going to be much easier when you start panning etc.
That's just my interpretation but I took it as being a foolproof starting point.

If you start a mix in mono and work with eq to make everything sit the way you want, then it'll definitely work well when things are panned out.
If you start mixing with your parts panned the way you want them and things are sounding muddy, it might be tricky to find out why.

When I used to have a digi 003 I'd hit the mono button all the time for reference. Now I don't have a convenient mono button, so I don't.

 

[Jonesey9]

This is what confuses me when people say that if you get a mix sounding good in mono it will sound good once you pan it out to stereo. I can't see how the levels won't change because all the relationships change.
There again, what do I know ?

Any level change will ultimately depend on what pan law your DAW is set at.

Not many DAWS have implemented this correctly, but Sonar does the best job by far. You can choose from:

0dB Center, sin/cos taper, constant power
-3dB Center, sin/cos taper, constant power
0dB Center, squareroot taper, constant power
-3dB Center, squareroot taper, constant power
6dB Center, Linear Taper
0dB Center, Balance Control


This might help:

http://ltibbits.public.iastate.edu/downloads/SonarForum/Pan-Laws/Sonar-6-pan-laws.pdf