"minus one" track

J

jwai

New member
Hi There,

Recently, i'm trying to do a "minus one" track from a mp3. I've converted it to a wave file using goldwave and then import it to cool edit pro 2.0. it's all in a single track. does anyone have any idea how to split the tracks to drums, bass, keyboard, vocals, lead guitar and rhythm guitar? i'm trying to "minus" out the lead guitar track for practicing purposes. does anyone have any idea how to do it? thanks alot!!
 
you want to extract one instrument from a complete mix without access to the multitrack session?

the short answer is: sorry - you can't do it.
 
is there a method to extract that complete mix (in a single track) to a multitrack? any methods to do it?
 
jwai said:
is there a method to extract that complete mix (in a single track) to a multitrack? any methods to do it?
Click to expand...

The answer is still pretty much no, you can't do it. Why not contact the record company for access to the original multitrack. It would be easier.

Oddly enough, there are a lot of threads on the Syntrillium forum for Cooledit that go just like this. New poster asks how to remove vocals, keep vocals, lower the bass to nothing, extract the strings ... and then vanishes ...

Just a little later, another new poster shows up and asks the same thing, worded differently. It's hard to come up with 50 ways of asking the same question ...

Mike.
 
littledog said:
you want to extract one instrument from a complete mix without access to the multitrack session?

the short answer is: sorry - you can't do it.
Click to expand...

LOL

Now that would be a Great Plugin !!

Malcolm
 
What are you guys talking about? I can do this no problem. Separate out anything you want. Hell, I can separate backing vocalists from each other!

Just send me a check for $99.95. PM me for details. We can take care of getting me the track later.
 
charger said:
I can do this no problem
Click to expand...

Can you say what exact equipment you are using for this "demixing" of the stereo master? Does it work on mono?

Oddly, whenever I've asked this question before, the answer has been either non-existant, or vague and handwavy, so I'd appreciate some specifics from someone who seems to know.

Mike.
 
er, Mike...

He was kidding...

AT BEST, about the only thing that can be done is to isolate and remove the center-channel information (ie, the L+R component of the stereo track), leaving only the L-R difference component.

But it is really impossible to isolate individual tracks once they've been mixed.
 
Re: er, Mike...

Blue Bear Sound said:
He was kidding...

AT BEST, about the only thing that can be done is to isolate and remove the center-channel information (ie, the L+R component of the stereo track), leaving only the L-R difference component.

But it is really impossible to isolate individual tracks once they've been mixed.
Click to expand...

OK, and that would be my normal reaction to such claims.

I'm currently talking to someone (off forum) that knows someone who has access to "demixing" equipment.

They have "demixed" some Beatles material -- the 1962-1966 Capitol tracks. I've heard some of the results.

http://www.klaatu.org/ms/

I'm not 100% convinced. But I'm intrigued.

Ignoring legalities of all this ... 2 things occur to me ...

Either there is a DSP way of nuking the centre channel and leaving the rest of the stereo in place, and vice versa -- unlike your usual subtracting left off right gubbins. In which case I wanna know about it ...

Or this guy has access to enough bootlegs to be able to assemble partly multitracked mixes. Someone somewhere has booted one or more twin-track tapes, from which a "multitrack" can be reconstructed?

Opinions?

The guy claims that he will demix stuff you send him, from an mp3, but I haven't tested this with a track that he can't have access to anything BUT the stereo of :)

Mike.
 
Don't forget - bass and drums of Beatles tracks were already separated and became part of the L-R component, so they are quite easy to extract...

No one mixes songs like that anymore, so the tracks are much more tightly integrated in the mix across both channels.
 
Bruce alludes to the old "Music Minus One" records of the 60s.
Let's say you got the vocal version.They would record a normal mix on the left and right channels.However, the vocal would be recorded with the left and right signals 100% out of phase.You could listen to either track (left or right) by itself and hear the full band.But when the balance knob was put in the middle,the two out of phase vocal tracks would combine and cancel out to silence (thus the "minus one" sobriquet).Then you could practice your vocal part along with the band.
I'm sorry that this info cannot help you to do the impossible task you want it to.But at least you have a bit of historical perspective why.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Don't forget - bass and drums of Beatles tracks were already separated and became part of the L-R component, so they are quite easy to extract...

No one mixes songs like that anymore, so the tracks are much more tightly integrated in the mix across both channels.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of the odd use of "stereo" that the Beatles had.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are driving at with "were already separated", if not the "wide spread" effect.

I'm endeavouring to get hold of some of the fuller CDs, because the examples are only short, and then compare them against the mixed tracks to see if this stereo spread is the trick.

Mike.
 
Extraction of stereo components allows you to remove all center-channel info (the L+R stereo component) leaving you with the L-R signal component....

In modern mixes, this usually means you can strip out much of the vocal, as well as kick, snare, and bass while leaving the remaining tracks relatively intact (except for any center-channel portions)... with EQ and filtering you might even be able to narrow down some of the L-R remaining signal into various bandwidths but you're NOT going to be able to isolate an individual track.

In those "weird stereo" Beatles mixes, individual tracks like bass drums and vocals were not "center-channel" signals, and so using the above technique to isloate the L+R from L-R components means you DO get whole tracks isolated, since there was actually very little common signal (L+R) in the track to start with, and the other tracks were already isloated from each other via hard-panning. Even without using the Inverted-polarity-on-centre-channel track, you can get track isolation on those Beatles albums just by simple panning!

You can argue 'til you're blue in the face, but with the exception of some older, early mixes, you really CANNOT isolate individual tracks from a stereo mix. Period.
 
Hey, I'm not arguing, I was just trying to

a) understand what you were saying, and

b) look for opinions on what the guy claimed he was doing with "removing the centre channel, stereo in place".

b) is incompatible with "subtracting left off right". Do the maths. You end up with a screwed mono signal.

I'm not convinced it can be done either... but I'd like to find out more about what this guy *has* done, as I don't have a closed mind on it.

Where did I say that vocal extraction/removal etc. was possible, other than to cite the klatuu stuff?

Edit: Also we seem to be guilty of talking about this "centre" channel as being the L+R component. That's not right.

Three sources, one panned hard left, one panned "centre", one panned right.

L+R gives you "Left+Centre+Right" in a mixture. It's a normal mono signal.

The "centre channel" is JUST the Centre information.

Just to clear that one up.
 
If you make a cake, you'll have to put all the ingredients in the oven and make it one thing (that would be the cake)

Once it is ready there is no way to retrieve all the ingredients seperatly. You'll only end up with dirty fingers from trying to sort your poep!
 
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