Minimizing the sound of the stick hit on cymbals?

R

rnelson

New member
Hi guys,

I was just wondering if anybody knew any techniques for minimizing the sound of drumsticks on a cymbal. Generally for ride hits I like it cause it needs that rhythm of the hti, but for crashes I just want the sizzle of the cymbal without the hit.

Agressive compression with a fast attack kinda gets there but not quite.

Any EQ, compression, limiting, reverb tricks for this sound?


Thanks!
 
rnelson said:
Hi guys,

I was just wondering if anybody knew any techniques for minimizing the sound of drumsticks on a cymbal. Generally for ride hits I like it cause it needs that rhythm of the hti, but for crashes I just want the sizzle of the cymbal without the hit.

Agressive compression with a fast attack kinda gets there but not quite.

Any EQ, compression, limiting, reverb tricks for this sound?


Thanks!
Click to expand...

Well if the cymbals are being picked up by overheads, gating is kind of out of the question.

You could replace the cymbals with samples.

Try some EQ (fairly narrow Q, boost the gain and find where the stick hit is loudest, and then drop it down, although this will affect the sound of the cymbals aswell).

Or, if you have the option, retrack. If you're using mics just on the cymbals (not as overheads), mic the outer part (further from the drummer) so that you get more cymbal and less stick.
 
How do you get the sound of a stick hit on a crash??? I think before you gointo "band-aid" mode with compression, gates, and a bunch of other stuff that's just going to ruin the overall sound, the drummer has to know how to hit a crash.

I couldn't get the sound of a stick hit on my crashes if I try. But that's because you're not supposed to hit them straight on with the tip the same way you'd hit a ride. You have to sweep the cymbal and hit it with the part of the stck that's about a 1/4 of the way up.
 
RAMI said:
How do you get the sound of a stick hit on a crash??? I think before you gointo "band-aid" mode with compression, gates, and a bunch of other stuff that's just going to ruin the overall sound, the drummer has to know how to hit a crash.

I couldn't get the sound of a stick hit on my crashes if I try. But that's because you're not supposed to hit them straight on with the tip the same way you'd hit a ride. You have to sweep the cymbal and hit it with the part of the stck that's about a 1/4 of the way up.
Click to expand...



.This is very true! correct your problems/concerns/and preferences at the source!
If all else fails because of drummer technique you could rap the sticks with a fine layer of cloth.



:cool:
 
Hi guys, been off all afternoon, but thanks for all the replys!

Ill try and answer some of the concerns expressed by some of you guys.

First of all, my drummer is good and knows how to hit the cymbal correctly. Its not that im unhappy with getting too much stick on a cymbal, I just wanted to reduce it as much as possible.

I should have been more clear in that Im going for an artificial sound, so even though crashes dont have that much 'stick' in them, I wanna overdo the 'unstickiness' haha.

I think gating definitely is the way to go but creates a lot of problems because as some implied, the cymbals ARE being picked up by the overheads.

Samples might do the trick but to me it seems like WAAAY more trouble than its worth to replace every single cymbal hit in a song, especially when I am gettinf part of the overall drum sound from the OHs so I dont think I could just up and mute them.

Ill keep on messing with compression, EQ and even the de-esser as suggested
to see what I can do.

Softer drumsticks would definitely be cool for this but wouldnt that ruin the attack of the other drums?

Anyways I really appreciate all the responses, and if anybody has any more ideas keep em coming, Im open to anything.

Also, if there are anymore tips for making cymbals have a softer attack and lusher sustain, thats kinda the sound im going for, even it thats not specifically 'taking out the stick'.
 
The most straightforward solution and one that gives total control of each cymbal hit so that you can tailor the attack to-taste...is editing. :)

One hit at a time, just cut and then cross-fade each cymbal crash. You can tailor the attack exactly how you want it.

Yeah...it's a lot of work, but then....you want "artificial". ;)
 
That definitely sounds like total control miroslav!

And I cant say I dont like cutting audio up and playing with it, but in this case I think the song doesn't call for it. (or maybe im getting lazy!)

What I might end up doing though is introducing a bit of sidechain compression on cymbal crashes so that the attack is drowned a bit by the kick and then they just kinda swell up a bit. I kinda feel this would make the cymbals and mix 'pound' a bit more. Its not techno or anything so it may sound weird but I'll try it to see how it sounds.

Any tips on doing mild sidechain compression on the OHs so the attack is drowned out by the kick? Settings? tricks? insults? hahaha

thanks again guys, I really appreciate all the responses.
 
It might be a terrible idea, but perhaps try a Transient Designer or a transient shaping plugin.

I should mention that I am a rank amateur,
 
Hey wicked, its actually not a bad idea at all!

Ive used transient designers for shaping some sounds in the past, and sometimes to transform them into something else entirely.

The problem in this specific situation is that as I mentioned before, these are overhead mics so they are picking up a of the drum kit, so I dont wanna get too extreme for fear of damaging the drum sound as a whole.

Any tips on the sidechain compression front?
 
Yeah, if you're counting on the overheads for much else, its a problem, but if you're getting enough attack from the close mics, maybe...
 
Dude!

The transient shaper seems to do the job! I just gotta mess with it little and get the right settings.

Thanks man! Sometimes you kinda forget about basic stuff until somebody reminds you its there.
 
My curiosity is killing me, I've gotta hear what too much "stick" on a cymbal sounds like - Maybe all my drum-recordings have too much stick! :D Can you post a sample of this, please?
 
rnelson said:
...Also, if there are anymore tips for making cymbals have a softer attack and lusher sustain, thats kinda the sound im going for, even it thats not specifically 'taking out the stick'.
Click to expand...

He can always buy darker sounding cymbals.

Otherwise, we just don't get your oddball request. Most cymbals sound fine when hit with a stick. It's a percussive instrument. It is supposed to sound like it got hit with something.

What's the problem? Do his sound ugly? Or is this a love ballad?
 
Maybe you could cut the felt off of a mallet and bore it out so it's shaped like a doughnut. Then slide it onto a drum stick, but put it, say, 1/3 the way down. Then glue it. Have the drummer play the kit with the tips, but hit the crashes with the side of the stick (in this case, with a mallet).

Or if you don't want to ruin a mallet, try tying some cloth around the stick or putting a whole bunch of rubber bands on it. Diagram below.


Regular mallet:

=========()

This idea:

=====()===>

Take those drawings in context, gentlemen!
 
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