midi nube with a few questions

RICK FITZPATRICK

RICK FITZPATRICK

New member
:D Heres the deal. Its taken a long time to collect a bunch of gear and build a studio and now its time to connect everything. I've really been an analog guy for a long time, and am computer savy since 96', but really haven't delved into the Midi end of things very much. However, ever since I bought my first FX outboard unit, I've wondered how sequencing or Daw programs control the outboard units through midi. Please excuse my lack of Midi sophistication..but I do know a little. I have a complete Midi book, but it doesn't tell HOW you get the data into sequencer programs for these units.(I know, probably a 6 year old can do it by now:rolleyes::D

Can anyone tell me how you enter data in recording programs for outboard FX units. I have about 5 fx units with Midi In/outs, and a Optcode Studio 128 midi interface, but have no idea how to set anything in various Daw programs such as Reaper, Cubase, Nuendo or any number of other programs I have. What I'm trying to figure out is how to switch Patch numbers and maybe parameters in synch with the Digital Audio data/tape machines. :confused:

Here is what I'm trying to setup
2 analog MSR-16 tape decks synched via Midiizer.
2 computers- 1 with recording programs synched to Midiizer via SMPTE/Midi
(with Midi connection to Studio 128 midi unint
1 with Lexicon Core 32 system..not synched to anything yet

Various outboard equipment connected to Studio 128(midi)
2 keybords(cheap Yamaha type) connected to Studo 128
Tascam M3700 mixer with midi connections(for what I don't know yet:o)
Tascam TMD1000 digital mixer with midi connections...again..what for?

Second question...is there a way to trigger "sampled sounds" in the computer from cheap keyboards with midi, and if so, what type of files do they have to be(I'd like to us Gigasampler, but don't have the right kind of soundcard right now..btw, my current soundcard is only a SB Audigy...but I'll be getting a RME Hammerfall or some other interface soon...What would work with Gigasampler? And can these sampled sounds be triggered at the same time a sequencer is playing back data for the effects units?

Ok, nuff for now.:D thanks guys:confused::confused::confused:
fitZ

I know I'm really behind the times:rolleyes: but I really love analog, and am just getting into the digital/stuff. Any help would be appreciated.

1
 
Ok Rick, that's a pretty big palette of midi you got there. I'm not a real expert either, but will impart what little I know.

Sequencer programs send the midi information on each track to the assigned device through the assigned port. Each sequencer has a slighly different way of doing int, but not too important for now.

In order to send "patch" information (changing FX settings) like Prog 1 or Prog 2, you will insert a "patch change" at a set point in the midi track. For an analogue guy, that would be like splicing a single snare hit onto one of your 16 tracks. Nothing else lives on this track, just that one snare hit. In the midi realm, it would not be a wave file, but a midi event, like "patch change" or "control change". When the "tape" gets to that point, your midi events are sent through previously determined track parameters (like device number, and channel number).

You must first get your machines recognising each other. If you've striped tape with midi you know how that works. But you can also get your DAW to recognize other device including keyboards and mid-enable outboard devices using MMC or Sysex protocol.

Every newer midi device is capable of sending it's midi protocol to your DAW through it's midi out. Your DAW can accept this transmission and save it to a file. This is basically a roadmap of the device that your DAW uses to communicate back and forth.

I'm tired of typing for now, but Ill be back.
 
In order to send "patch" information (changing FX settings) like Prog 1 or Prog 2, you will insert a "patch change" at a set point in the midi track.
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Hmmm, thats the problem. Just HOW do I "insert" a patch change at a set point in the sequencer? What is it that I "insert" ? Do I use the querty keyboard to insert some kind of data..or do I do a manual patch change on the unit itself at the appointed time? Will one track change parameters/patches on different units at different points along the track? Hmmm, I guess I'll have to dig out my manuals and do some reading.:p

I know this stuff seems kinda dated to people who mix ITB, and have all kinds of plug-ins etc. But I LOVE analog and have always wanted my system to incorporate the digital stuff to control midi data for the analog domain. I too have all the digital plugins and stuff..BUT...I LOVE ANALOG:D Thats why I have this stuff. Anyway, thanks for the info so far. Look forward to more.
You must first get your machines recognising each other. If you've striped tape with midi you know how that works.
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Actually, the tapes are striped with SMPTE time code. The midiizer translates this to a midi out as well. I haven't tried synching the tape machines/computer with the midiizer yet. Maybe this weekend....oops..I don't even know what I need on the computer end to get the midi data in...theres no "midi in/out" connections on my Audigy card. Hmmm, of course ....I have to get another card. Crap. My wife is complaining about the money I've spent already, and here we go again. more stuff.......does it ever end?
 
I can't help you with most of that stuff because I can barely make my MIDI CCs work with my damn controllers, let alone with outboard gear, but if you need a simple MIDI input/output you can get a USB MIDI interface for the price of a couple of ink cartridges, and if you're running XP or newer they're usually class-compliant so you won't need any drivers or fancy software. But all of that sending of instructions to different pieces of hardware, well, I dunno about any of that I'm afraid.

On the other bit, if you've got some VST-compliant sequencer software at the moment, there are loads of VST instruments that will, as you say, trigger off an incoming MIDI signal. Some are synths and some are sample-based. Hundreds of them cost nothing and would give you a chance to experiment. You just set up a MIDI track in your sequencer, choose your MIDI In as the input (you can literally connect the MIDI Out of a synth/keyboard to the MIDI In on your PC) and hit record.
 
Rick, I don't know what software you're using. In Sonar/Cakewalk you would first insert a new midi track. Then click on the track pane to go to a midi/piano-roll screen. Depending on your software, this is where you'll be able to enter midi notes (looks like a keyboard along the left side). In this window you can insert all kinds of midi events, it's kinda like musical Excel.

Try this, load some pre-existing midi file into a new project.
Double click any of the tracks to get to the "piano-roll".
At the top pf this screen there will be drop-down boxes for midi commands, and midi events.
This enables you to "write" midi events into this track.

Now let's look at the "sysex" or "devices" window of your DAW. If you have a sysex window available use it. Here you'll see that you can load pre-existing sysex (like XG, general midi, Roland). If you have a sysex file from your device's manufacturer, you can load it here. You can also set it up to load whenever the song starts to play, and what bank or channel it will be.

Your DAW software needs a roadmap for everydevice it talks to. Some are provided by the manufacturer as "sysex" files which can be loaded directly in the sysex window, or even dropped onto the track at a certain point. Other devices with more features and lots of patch points might have what's called an instrument definition file, which is VERY device oriented.

Most midi devices will respond in some way to standard midi messages like patch change. You may not even need sysex's or instrument definition files. But to send midi commands to devices, you'll need to figure out where your midi command box is, and what it can do. I think if you find the "piano-roll" window, and then figure out how to write a couple of midi notes, you'll start to see the other possibilities.

Hang in there, it's quite a learning curve, but what can be done is nothing short of amazing.
 
Hang in there, it's quite a learning curve, but what can be done is nothing short of amazing.
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Thats what I was hoping for:D The first time I connected a cheap Yamaha midi keyboard up to the computer, I fiddled around with some of the keyboard sequencing patterns and got it actually do some chord changes and such. btw, I'm not a keyboardist. However, at some point, I accidentally hit some button that made the keyboard play this "standard" rhythm/bass sequence BACKWARDS!:eek: It sounded AWESOME! All of a sudden, this cheap yamaha keyboard sounded like a full blown B3 with gutsy balls, and Weather Reports bass player kicking ass in the background:p I was totally blown away. I recorded this for a half hour and added some guitar to it. That little episode is what prompted me to get this "midi" thing happening. Unfortunately, its taken TEN FUCKING YEARS to get here:rolleyes::mad::D;)

Thanks a million for the insights. I do have Cakewalk AND Sonar...and every other program too(except ProTools which I won't EVER be using) so I'll check your info against a few of them as soon as possible. Although I'm not sure about the sysex stuff on the FX boxes. I remember reading a chapter in the manual about this stuff. Maybe its there. I'll have to dig the manuals out and check. Been planning on doing that anyway, but you know how time goes...out the window. Thanks again guys.
fitZ
 
Rick,
The midi on the TMD1000 is for MMC (Midi Machine Control) which is an old way to control tape/DAT/etc recorders. You could use it as a control surface also since just about every control sends out a midi message
 
Rick,
The midi on the TMD1000 is for MMC (Midi Machine Control) which is an old way to control tape/DAT/etc recorders. You could use it as a control surface also since just about every control sends out a midi message
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:eek: too cool. I was wondering what I was going to do with this thing. Guess I have LOTS of reading to do. I didn't know it could act as a control surface. Dang, you made my day:D thanks a mill for the tip.
 
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