Mics for classical grand piano...

[John Willett]

The few times I have mic'ed up a Stienway 9 foot grand successfully we used a spaced pair of u87's about 1.5 feet above the strings on either side. Nothing fancy. That gave me a nice close sound without too much room (we were in a very large room). This worked well for the pop mix we were doing at the time.

Agreed, good for a pop mix.

When I used that same piano in the same room to capture a more realistic sound from a listeners prospective we used a pair of c414's about mid piano just outside the opening in Mid Side configuration. This gave us a AWESOME sound which i prefer. Very natural and easy to control room sound by bringing in or out the mid side. This is great for making a chorus wider sounding.

If it were me with your microphone selection I would try the SE4400a pair in MS. I would use the c214 spaced pair as a alternative method. If you have the luxury, do all 4 mics and a/b both! IMO that piano would be better suited for LDC over SDC. YMMV!

Sorry, I don't agree with this.

MS is an excellent technique and I use it a lot - just not for a concert grand piano.

You would likely use a cardioid mid - the result would be a recording lacking in bottom end compared to using omnis.

Yes - I tried this myself when I had to record a Steinway Model-D in a small room.

I had the chance to do a test a week or so before the recording. I tried 20cm spaced omnis and an MS pair in various positions in the room to see what it all sounded like.

I was amazed at how much of the bottom end was lost on the MS pair compared to the omnis.

In the instance that the OP describes - recording a piano recital in a good room - the Røde NT-55 with the omni heads is by far the best option.

I'm sorry to keep repeating this, but it's true - many of the other microphone techniques suggested are actually very valid techniques. But not for a classical piano recital in a good room.

You need to use the room and get the best balance between the piano and the room and good SDC omnis are the perfect solution for this.

Remember - this is a location recording, not a studio recording; with a great room you use the room. It's not a studio where you have to lose the room and artificially put in the room by using reverb. The reverb is natural in the room and you get the correct level by mic. placement. With a good piano recording that's all you do - get the mice in the right place, record and edit; there is no need to add reverb, no need to EQ and, most of the time, no need to compress - just put out the mics record and edit, that's all.

 

[greengyozaman]

Thanks John and all - I'll give it a go using my Røde NT-55 pair with omni and record the recital via Focusrite Octopre MkII on my H4n at 96kHz/24-bit. Less to carry too!

One of these days I'll save enough for the pair of Sennheiser MKH omnis and upgrade to something like Korg MR-2000s for SACD standard recording...

Still tempted to utilise my SE4400a in addition - maybe I could use this to record the room sound?

On the question of spaced omni when using Røde NT-55s - I have a 30cm stereo bar which came with my SE4400a matched pair set. Would an extra 10cm make a difference or 20cm space be enough? I keep hearing 3-to-1 rule and this may suggest that I could experiment with a 40-60cm spacing. What is your experience of this, and is this any better?

 

[John Willett]

Thanks John and all - I'll give it a go using my Røde NT-55 pair with omni and record the recital via Focusrite Octopre MkII on my H4n at 96kHz/24-bit. Less to carry too!

One of these days I'll save enough for the pair of Sennheiser MKH omnis and upgrade to something like Korg MR-2000s for SACD standard recording...

Still tempted to utilise my SE4400a in addition - maybe I could use this to record the room sound?

On the question of spaced omni when using Røde NT-55s - I have a 30cm stereo bar which came with my SE4400a matched pair set. Would an extra 10cm make a difference or 20cm space be enough? I keep hearing 3-to-1 rule and this may suggest that I could experiment with a 40-60cm spacing. What is your experience of this, and is this any better?

I tended to have them on the end of the cheapo K&M stereo bar.

The distance apart is about the same distance apart as your ears - I'm not sure how much going wider will change it.

 

[greengyozaman]

Thanks again John - just got my Focusrite Octopre MKII delivered and I'll be up and running experimenting with the Rode NT-55 matched pair...

 

[dgatwood]

MS is an excellent technique and I use it a lot - just not for a concert grand piano.

You would likely use a cardioid mid - the result would be a recording lacking in bottom end compared to using omnis.

*shrugs*

Position it close enough, and you should get enough proximity boost to make up for the low end loss of a typical cardioid or figure-8 mic. You will, however, lose some of the room. Whether that is good or bad depends on the room and the type of sound you are going for. You really should experiment with different combinations of mics in different locations in order to determine what works best in your particular space.

 

[John Willett]

*shrugs*

Position it close enough, and you should get enough proximity boost to make up for the low end loss of a typical cardioid or figure-8 mic. You will, however, lose some of the room. Whether that is good or bad depends on the room and the type of sound you are going for. You really should experiment with different combinations of mics in different locations in order to determine what works best in your particular space.

I agree; but the OP specifically said it was a good room. The MS pair would have to be so close that you would lose the character of the room.

As I said, although all the microphone techniques are valid, depending on the music being recorded - for a classical piano recital in a good room (as the OP said) nothing can beat a pair of good SDC omnis to capture the performance.

 

[greengyozaman]

I tested my Rode NT-55 pair with omni heads on a cheap 17-cm stereo bar recording a Steinway model D at Jacques Samuels yesterday (ok, in a small cramped room) - for the price, it is amazing how faithful the sound is all the way down to the bottom A...

I don't think I got the preamp setting right yet - first time I used it, I put it up to max level (level 10) and resulting in a buzzy recording sound when I was playing so loud (mics placed at about less than 2 feet from half-way length of the piano facing half-lid open).... I dropped it to about level 6 or 7 - but I still think it is quite high...

Another chance to practice recording the D in 2 wks so we'll see - and then recording the real thing a few days later... But I'd be keen to know what are the useful rules for setting my Octopre mkII preamp with Rode NT-55s.