Microphone tests and explanations

I've had a look at the cheap Samson C01 mics up against the AKG451 - spurred on by the recent chat about soundhole vs neck positions - and I know my views on two mics on guitars don't align with others, so I recorded my crummy guitar with both soundhole and neck mics and then cut the results together - as usual, no processing and no EQ.

I was a little surprised actually - the Samson really didn't like the sound hole position at all, and I don't know why - but the hump in the response is quite obvious, but I think I do prefer it on the neck side? Opera singers were mentioned today and the usual LDC mics - but you can see what I rather like for videos in the youtube clip - extension tubes!
 
Samson

Soundhole fingers sounded a little boomy and louder
Neck fingers sounded fuller, more rounded
Soundhole strumming sounded muffled
Neck strumming sounded fuller and more rounded
Soundhole pick sounded a little in a can reverby
Neck pick sounded nice and fuller
Soundhole blues pick sounded a little tinny

AKG

Soundhole fingers sounded a little bright but nice
Neck fingers also a little bright and thin
Soundhole strumming sounded a bit bright
Neck strumming sounded too bright and tinny
Soundhole pick sounded pretty good
Neck pick sounded metallic
Soundhole blues pick sounded metallic
 
Did you hear the weird sound the Samson had on the sound hole? Almost like the sound a way was pedal has before you start to stand on it? Sort of hollow? That was not expected. In fairness that guitar just doesn't record well, but probably a good one to use for the experiments as it might well be more typical than a really nice expensive one that would be flattered by almost any mic. I'd just not expected such a difference - and of course for real, you'd be using the positions in between too to balance it out tonally.
 
Yes, I think it was that in-the-can-reverby sound I mentioned. I support your use of that guitar over a big Martin for just those reasons you mentioned. I'd be using a Chinese Rogue or my Baby Taylor.
 
I've arranged a recording session today with a concert pianist, and he has at home a Yamaha grand - but it's in his living room. He's willing to play the same piece of music multiple times and I'll record it. I figured recording a grand piano in a non-performance venue is something many people might want to do - so I thought I might try a mid-field X/Y pair (for those who want 'stereo' - even in a rotten room) then a couple of versions of close mic ideas, and then for good measure I'll try to get a MIDI file of the same piece and re-create it in a couple of VSTis. So we'd have distant, close and artificial versions of the same piece of music played by a proper pianist.

He's been working on a piece where the notes come from sympathetic resonance - one of those arty piece - you very gently play a chord, so quietly it does not sound, and you hold the notes down - then those notes do not have the damper pads down. You then 'thump' a cluster of bass notes, very short and sharp, and the harmonics of the bass notes start the unmuted strings ringing sympathetically - it's quite haunting, and to me very unmusical, but very difficult to do in a controlled manner. I did think about the other topic running where there's a dead grand needing disposing of - maybe the OP for that topic could turn it into one of those prepared pianos, record every note and sell a sample package?
 
I bought two 451s as a pair, but added more and got them mixed up - so for stereo miking with them, I'm no longer certain - I have 3 silver and one black, and can't tell the difference between them.
 
rob aylestone said:
I've arranged a recording session today with a concert pianist, and he has at home a Yamaha grand - but it's in his living room. He's willing to play the same piece of music multiple times and I'll record it. I figured recording a grand piano in a non-performance venue is something many people might want to do - so I thought I might try a mid-field X/Y pair (for those who want 'stereo' - even in a rotten room) then a couple of versions of close mic ideas, and then for good measure I'll try to get a MIDI file of the same piece and re-create it in a couple of VSTis. So we'd have distant, close and artificial versions of the same piece of music played by a proper pianist.

He's been working on a piece where the notes come from sympathetic resonance - one of those arty piece - you very gently play a chord, so quietly it does not sound, and you hold the notes down - then those notes do not have the damper pads down. You then 'thump' a cluster of bass notes, very short and sharp, and the harmonics of the bass notes start the unmuted strings ringing sympathetically - it's quite haunting, and to me very unmusical, but very difficult to do in a controlled manner. I did think about the other topic running where there's a dead grand needing disposing of - maybe the OP for that topic could turn it into one of those prepared pianos, record every note and sell a sample package?
Click to expand...
Interesting stuff! :>)
 
I am putting one together (but ran out of time today) of ribbon mics, when I found the one I own own the shelf - I thought I'd also do a live connect with 48V phantom applied, as loads of people get worried with ribbons and wrecking them. I'm trying to think of other things I could try, so if anyone has any ideas, or things they want to compare - give me a shout. I've just found a flight case which has some Chinese dual pattern LDCs in, that I'd forgotten about. I've scrapped plans for the drum stuff as I've just sold the acoustic kit. Still got some mics, so have missed the boat there. I do have some double bass to record at sometime in the next two weeks for another project, so might take some time to try that with different mics. Piano recording will now be next Weds, so a little breathing space there.
 
Hi Rob. I popped over to Youtube and "subscribed" to your channel. Well done sir.

One question for my own reference, what is the characteristics of your environment/recording space? RT60 plot etc.

Cheers,

Tom eh
 
Tomeh, absolutely no idea at all. It’s my video studio. I used it as a space to build that desk, as it was free and then moved it out the way. I was then doing a talking head thing about car insurance for a client, and when it was over needed the space the desk was taking up, so moved the desk back into the empty studio space, and noticed that it’s sounded ok sitting at it. I rummaged around and found some big powered speakers and played some music, which was less boomy than I thought, Cubase 12 came up so I upgraded the audio studio back at home, and then thought I’d put it on the office MacBook I use for video stuff, and it sort of happened. It has hard everything, surface wise and all the walls have flightcases and junk against them, then there are coloured fabric. Medium weight green, blue, black and white, and I just brought the blacks to the inside, and that is it. Just the deadening from those! I think the air gap behind the layers of cloth is a happy accident, sound wise, but it’s deadish. I use hand claps for sync, and as I tend to not record close to the top end of the scale, they're super easy to spot in the waveforms for editing, and the spike very quick to decay - so by pure luck I have a very bottom end boom free space that has a deader than usual top end. I use a NAS drive in the home studio which lets me access the audio files from three computers there, and the video work in the office uses the same NAS, connected over the net. It allows me to do audio things on video projects from the other premises, but I've just started to let the video space computer access the NAS audio section - but it needs to do a full sync to do this and that's causing some delay, as I shut these computers down when I'm not there for safety reasons. I guess I'll have to remove the 'sound' stuff at some point if a larger video job comes in, but the diary is filling with more sound things, or outside location work so it might stay longer. My only problem with recording audio is that the floor above me is an office and they have a shredder that I can hear and the occasional thumping of feet - it's an old building and little insulation between my ceiling and their floor. However, they always go home at 5pm - so noisier things I just do evenings and weekends which works.

I've never even seen a CAD M179, although Ipswich is only 40 miles away. Does it do something that would make it worth looking at?
 
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Spantini - in the videos I often joke about breaking things. I work in a huge mess. When I start to fall over too often, I clear up - so that's maybe twice a year. Your picture isn't too far from the truth.
 
Here is the video about figure-8 mics and ribbons - including connecting one to 48V Phantom.

....... and a picture of the studio with the working lights on. The darkness hides all sorts.
studio.jpg
 
rob aylestone said:
I've never even seen a CAD M179, although Ipswich is only 40 miles away. Does it do something that would make it worth looking at?
Click to expand...
I have found it very useful. Multi-pattern LDC. A buddy of mine who worked at an audio installation company gave me one a long time ago. Had a drummer come in once with a ridiculous amount of toms and I was out of mics. I just threw it on a floor tom and it has never left that spot since. Sounds way better than 57 or 421 in that role. Never got around to trying on anything else...
 
rob aylestone said:
Tomeh, absolutely no idea at all. It’s my video studio. I used it as a space to build that desk, as it was free and then moved it out the way. I was then doing a talking head thing about car insurance for a client, and when it was over needed the space the desk was taking up, so moved the desk back into the empty studio space, and noticed that it’s sounded ok sitting at it. I rummaged around and found some big powered speakers and played some music, which was less boomy than I thought, Cubase 12 came up so I upgraded the audio studio back at home, and then thought I’d put it on the office MacBook I use for video stuff, and it sort of happened. It has hard everything, surface wise and all the walls have flightcases and junk against them, then there are coloured fabric. Medium weight green, blue, black and white, and I just brought the blacks to the inside, and that is it. Just the deadening from those! I think the air gap behind the layers of cloth is a happy accident, sound wise, but it’s deadish. I use hand claps for sync, and as I tend to not record close to the top end of the scale, they're super easy to spot in the waveforms for editing, and the spike very quick to decay - so by pure luck I have a very bottom end boom free space that has a deader than usual top end. I use a NAS drive in the home studio which lets me access the audio files from three computers there, and the video work in the office uses the same NAS, connected over the net. It allows me to do audio things on video projects from the other premises, but I've just started to let the video space computer access the NAS audio section - but it needs to do a full sync to do this and that's causing some delay, as I shut these computers down when I'm not there for safety reasons. I guess I'll have to remove the 'sound' stuff at some point if a larger video job comes in, but the diary is filling with more sound things, or outside location work so it might stay longer. My only problem with recording audio is that the floor above me is an office and they have a shredder that I can hear and the occasional thumping of feet - it's an old building and little insulation between my ceiling and their floor. However, they always go home at 5pm - so noisier things I just do evenings and weekends which works.

I've never even seen a CAD M179, although Ipswich is only 40 miles away. Does it do something that would make it worth looking at?
Click to expand...


CAD M179, Well it's another great performer for the money and versatile. Infinitely variable pattern and around $350 CAD new. That should be about 212 for you?

I went through your video's. Well done, great idea.

Cheers,

Tom eh
 
rob aylestone said:
I've arranged a recording session today with a concert pianist, and he has at home a Yamaha grand - but it's in his living room. He's willing to play the same piece of music multiple times and I'll record it. I figured recording a grand piano in a non-performance venue is something many people might want to do - so I thought I might try a mid-field X/Y pair (for those who want 'stereo' - even in a rotten room) then a couple of versions of close mic ideas, and then for good measure I'll try to get a MIDI file of the same piece and re-create it in a couple of VSTis. So we'd have distant, close and artificial versions of the same piece of music played by a proper pianist.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it would be great to have a good midi file of a real pianist.

Some of the most useful microphone comparisons on piano were done using midi files into a Yamaha Disklavier. You get a reproducable performance on a real grand piano. That makes the comparisons more valid for me. I've heard way too may comparisons where the variations in the playing swamped the differences the mic was supposed to reveal.
 
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