Mic'ing Guitar cab

C

cecerre

New member
So, honestly, its not a 'recording' question. I looked and I did not find a better place to post this here, so here goes. *puts on flame resistant kb cover*...My question is actually about mic'ing my guitar cab live, not really for recording. I have a Shure SM57, touted on the the big I'net as one of the premier instrument mics. However, last night at our latest show its was clipping something fierce. I had to turn the gain down considerably on the mic channel and that resulted in some nasty side effects from having to turn up the aux channels (For our IEM system). Now, nortmally we play in a club and the guit amp is not that loud but we were playing an outdoor show and I have a Peavey VTX 2x12 with a 2x12 cab so I cranked it for a good 'stage presence' and since the less we rely on the PA, the more it 'sounds' like my guitar and amp. Anyway, I am thinking the SM57 (Which is my second choice, I prefer the Shure SM58 for vox and instruments) is not giong to cut it long term as a guit mic for live or recording at louder levels. Any one have experience with a good guit mic that can handle the SPL levels or do I just have to live with the fact that I can't go past 3 on my AMP?
 
Sorry man, I've never run into this problem :(

I am not sure of your set-up, but did the sound board the 57 was going into have its gain on that channel too hot or was that all the way down too?
 
The SM57 and SM58 actually use an identical capsule, its just the windshield design which slightly changes the sound.

But I'm confused what is actually wrong... the mic input on the board was clipping, you trimmed the preamp gain a bit, it no longer clipped. Big woop. Am I missing something?
 
I think you are not clear on how to manage your signal chain gain stages.

short of you having a faulty 57 (very doubtful), the 57 will handle any volume you can throw at it.
 
I assure you, you are not overloading the 57. If you are overloading the mixer, you are really, really super stupid loud. Trying to get the same feeling that you get indoors when you are outdoors is a waste of time. It just won't happen and you will strain the equipment trying to do it.

Just set the amps like you normally do and bring them up in the monitors until you can hear what you are doing. Not until it blows your hair back.
 
Moving the microphone

Ok so...

my very first bit of advice is to simply move the microphone back about 8 inches farther from the amp. Many times it sounds crappy and almost like it's distorting simply because of being too close and on axis.

Also try to move the microphone off axis. This is hard to explain but I put pictures on a blog post about recording guitar about 6 months ago. Hope this isn't too self-promotiony :/

http://deathbyprotools.com/2008/03/b-rig-guitar-technique-its-not-what-you.html
 
JustAboutReal said:
Ok so...

my very first bit of advice is to simply move the microphone back about 8 inches farther from the amp. Many times it sounds crappy and almost like it's distorting simply because of being too close and on axis.

Also try to move the microphone off axis. This is hard to explain but I put pictures on a blog post about recording guitar about 6 months ago. Hope this isn't too self-promotiony :/

http://deathbyprotools.com/2008/03/b-rig-guitar-technique-its-not-what-you.html
Click to expand...


I would get a 20db pad first......before I start experimenting with placement. Placement will change the entire quality of the tone you get. I think you need to step down the signal level first as you are most likely distorting your preamp input. If the distortion sounds like wax paper kazoo buzzing type noise, then that is preamp distortion. Fix that first before you start changing the tone of your mic signal by moving the mic around. Moving the mic around to get rid of distortion still implies that this is a mic problem, and I dont think it is.... imo.....

That being said, as justaboutreal indicates, you should never underestimate the effect that mic placement will have on your tone.
 
Sonixx said:
I think you are not clear on how to manage your signal chain gain stages.

short of you having a faulty 57 (very doubtful), the 57 will handle any volume you can throw at it.
Click to expand...

I use a 57 as a kick mic (don't laugh it works good when you comress it), and I constantly fight clipping from overloading. It's the percussives I think that do it, and a guitar cab could easily do that depending on what note/chord/style you're playing.
 
undrgrnd studio said:
I use a 57 as a kick mic (don't laugh it works good when you comress it), and I constantly fight clipping from overloading. It's the percussives I think that do it, and a guitar cab could easily do that depending on what note/chord/style you're playing.
Click to expand...

it's not the mic, the preamp is overloading. try a 20db pad.
 
I've had good results from the Senn E-609 for mic'ing amps, but don't drape it over the amp, keep it about 2 inches from the front grille cloth. It seems to sound muddy any closer than that, but at approx 2" away, it gives a great clear, accurate sound comparable to the 421 which costs about 3 times as much.
 
Well, the consensus seems to be, as has been my experience, that the 57 is probably *not* the issue. However, its odd because it is the same rig I use indoors. One of the posters mentioned higher levels being out doors and I will admit I was cranking it. The amp is a mid 80's Peavey VTX Classic tube with some newer 6L6's and it will go. I can not pad, its a cheap board (However, has not had issues in the past) and it doesn't offer a PAD switch. I do have an out board preamp I can use, maybe thats the trick. I have another show this weekend at a local club in Memphis, so being back indoors, I will try it again since the levels will be down around near bearable ; ). Thank you all for your input (No pun intended..) As a side note I intentionally used the 57 at practice tonite for my vocals and I think I am going to use my 58 on the amp and the 57 for vocals from now on. I have done *a lot* of recording with the 58 and know what to expect. Thanks again!

-PC
 
Some more ideas

cecerre,

We do a lot of outdoor shows. We try to not mic the guitar amps at all unless they are not loud enough out front which is rarely the case. In fact we often ask the guitarists to turn down to get the best mix out front with the vocals right on top.

We never put any guitar or drums in the monitor. We use the monitor exclusively for vocals and acoustic instruments that are coming through the PA. When we do mic an amp we often use an SM57. Another good choice is the EV 635a. I used my 635s to mic cabinets for live sound a lot. Even though they are omnis you don't get feedback problems because they are so close to the cabinets and they are only playing out front.

I usually start with the SM57 about six inches in front of the cabinet off axis to one of the speakers. The omnis I can hang right over the front of the amp close to the grill cloth and again slightly off axis.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
External Pre

If the external Preamp has a pad, that is definately a good idea to try out.

However, I do no reccomend using the 58 on the amp and the 57 for vocals.

The sm58 and sm57 have the same capsule, so they're basically the same microphone. The only difference is that the sm58 has a wind screen (pop filter).

For obvious reasons the pop filter is much more useful on a vocalist than a guitar amp.
 
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