Mic'ing a bass cab

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bair_ohio

New member
Ok, I did searches and really did not see what I wanted to see.

Im not exactly new to recording but recently im having problems with this bass players tone. Fender Precision through an Ashdown Amp. Using a AKG kick mic. Pretty dead center and mayber 5" off of the speaker.

When he hits say a High D on the D string the signal is overwhelming. Other odd frequencies jump out also. Big and bloated sounding.

Is there a way to tame the beast here and get a nice even signal regardless of notes played? Should I use a different mic? Ive got a few to choose from beta 57,58 along with regular 57, 58 and Audio Tech ATM25
 
atm25 rox on bass, got parametric eq?, you could find the offending freq and cut some, maybe a litle compression to even it out but I would go with the eq.
 
I would start with experimenting with your mic placement. Instead of putting hte mic dead center, move it to the edge of the driver and see what happens. Also experiement with how close you put the mic. Basically move it all around and see if you can achieve a better sound.
 
I may be talking out my arse here (happens alot) but it sounds like setup to me. Maybe he just needs to tweak his bass some. ?

Also maybe clamping down a bit more with some comp? Not real sure just spewing out some thoughts...

:D
 
bair_ohio said:
Ok, I did searches and really did not see what I wanted to see.

Im not exactly new to recording but recently im having problems with this bass players tone. Fender Precision through an Ashdown Amp. Using a AKG kick mic. Pretty dead center and mayber 5" off of the speaker.

When he hits say a High D on the D string the signal is overwhelming. Other odd frequencies jump out also. Big and bloated sounding.

Is there a way to tame the beast here and get a nice even signal regardless of notes played? Should I use a different mic? Ive got a few to choose from beta 57,58 along with regular 57, 58 and Audio Tech ATM25
Click to expand...



Some people prefer to record a mixed signal that comes from a direct signal, as well as using the sound coming from a bass amplifier. A more advanced engineer might typically combine or mult the signals to just one track of tape. For a less experienced engineer, it might be a good idea to record the two signals to two distinct tracks, then combine them at a latter time. It's extremely important to remember that when recording the same signal from two sources that you are likely to encounter phase anomalies, meaning that the two signals will arrive at slightly different times. The result will often be comb filtering which will make some frequencies less audible the others. The bottom end is usually the first thing to disappear. This can be fixed by engaging the phase switch on the console, moving the mic closer to the bass amp's speaker, or using a very short delay on the direct signal so that it hits the console or tape machine at the same time as the later, amp/mic signal. This is a pretty tricky endeavor, and not recommended for novices.

When using a mic on a bass cabinet, it is usually desirable to try a condenser mic that is well-known for its bottom end, and to place it a foot or two back from the amp's grill. The reason: bass notes have long waveform, and require some air to fully manifest themselves. Rule of thumb: the closer your mic is to the amp, the more attack and edge you will hear; farther away will give you more bottom end.

EQing a bass for recording is usually pretty straight ahead. Add a little bit @ 100Hz to make the bottom fatter. Try 60Hz if you want to go even lower and fatter, although most car radios won't do a great job of reproducing 60Hz. If you're recording in a digital environment, it's always a plus to use a tube equalizer such as a Pultec to warm up the sound. The natural distortion caused by the tubes tends to add desirable harmonics to the bass signal.

Some information on the subject I hope it helps you out.
 
I definitely wouldn't mic the bass cab. Instead run a line from the head thru a DI to the mix.
 
The last thing I would do if I were experiencing uneven fretboard response from a bass is go to a DI. A DI-ed signal is, if anything, unnaturally dynamic, compared to a miced cab.
 
I don't know much about the amp, but could this be a port resonance? Try a different bass and see if you get the same problem, because it could also be a problem with the instrument. If the amp has a port, try muffling it and see if that helps.

If all else fails . . . go direct!
 
What you DIDN'T say - or I missed it - is whether these "wolf tones" occur in the room or only on the recording. Seems to me that piece of information is crucial to addressing the problem!
 
AGCurry said:
What you DIDN'T say - or I missed it - is whether these "wolf tones" occur in the room or only on the recording. Seems to me that piece of information is crucial to addressing the problem!
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The woofing sound occurs before the actual mic'ing stage. So when recording it is caught on disc/tape. Ive never had this problem before and find it quite irritating. Im also guessing the strings on the bass are probably the ones it was born with. This cannot help things. I actually did run a DI and mic to see if this would remedy things..It helped a bit.
 
bair_ohio said:
The woofing sound occurs before the actual mic'ing stage. So when recording it is caught on disc/tape. Ive never had this problem before and find it quite irritating. Im also guessing the strings on the bass are probably the ones it was born with. This cannot help things. I actually did run a DI and mic to see if this would remedy things..It helped a bit.
Click to expand...

Then the problem is with the instrument, the amp/speaker, or the room.

Usually, it's the room, at least in live-performance situations. MANY rooms have dead spots and wolf tones at certain frequencies.

So, in order:

Try a different room.
Try a different amp or speaker.
Try a different bass guitar.
 
AGCurry said:
Then the problem is with the instrument, the amp/speaker, or the room.
Click to expand...

My guess is it's the bass itself. If you hear poorly made basses compared to well made basses you'll find that the well made basses don't have this issue nearly as much.

If there's no way to get a better instrument ask the player to be mindful of the notes that are pronounced and play them softer than the others. Bassists that record are usually already familiar with their instruments' strong & weak points to do this. If he/she's new to recording it'll be a good thing to know moving forward.
 
karma101 said:
When using a mic on a bass cabinet, it is usually desirable to try a condenser mic that is well-known for its bottom end, and to place it a foot or two back from the amp's grill. The reason: bass notes have long waveform, and require some air to fully manifest themselves. Rule of thumb: the closer your mic is to the amp, the more attack and edge you will hear; farther away will give you more bottom end.


Some information on the subject I hope it helps you out.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, and it's put more eloquently than I could have managed.
 
bair_ohio said:
Ok, I did searches and really did not see what I wanted to see.

Im not exactly new to recording but recently im having problems with this bass players tone. Fender Precision through an Ashdown Amp. Using a AKG kick mic. Pretty dead center and mayber 5" off of the speaker.

When he hits say a High D on the D string the signal is overwhelming. Other odd frequencies jump out also. Big and bloated sounding.

Is there a way to tame the beast here and get a nice even signal regardless of notes played? Should I use a different mic? Ive got a few to choose from beta 57,58 along with regular 57, 58 and Audio Tech ATM25
Click to expand...

First thing to check on is the room. Can you substitute a different bass and see if you have the same resonances? Can you substitute a different amp to make sure the amp doesn't have a strange problem? If a different bass and amp have the same problem, it's the room.

Otto
 
karma101 said:
When using a mic on a bass cabinet, it is usually desirable to try a condenser mic that is well-known for its bottom end, and to place it a foot or two back from the amp's grill. The reason: bass notes have long waveform, and require some air to fully manifest themselves. Rule of thumb: the closer your mic is to the amp, the more attack and edge you will hear; farther away will give you more bottom end.
Click to expand...

While it's not bad advice, the reason given here is bad science. Bass notes DO have longer wavelengths, but they are "fully manifested" as soon as they leave the source.
 
It sounds like you found the sympathetic frequency of your room to me. Try a different room and maybe turn the amp down a little (so long as you can still get the tone you want.
 
i hate to say it - but in my experience 99.9% of the time it's the bass players fingers...how the bass is being played...that matters most in these situations.

Mike
 
It could be the room and a screw ball resonance... or it could be the amp is just too loud. No need to overly crank it for recording. Obnoxious resonances can often be tamed just by turning down a bit. Also, I agree with the player. 50% of the bass sound is in the player's hands. Also, consider a gobo or 10.... and mixing DI with mic. Dis get a bad rep for whtever reason, but on bass, they can be quite acceptable.
 
AGCurry said:
While it's not bad advice, the reason given here is bad science. Bass notes DO have longer wavelengths, but they are "fully manifested" as soon as they leave the source.
Click to expand...

I gotta say, the number of people who tell me that bass notes take a longer distance before they are "fully manifested", or something to that effect, is amazing. It bugs me that people try to explain that the sound is louder at a greater distance and things like that too.

But is there a reason for the sound being 'better' a few feet away from the cab? I'm really interested in improving bass guitar recording, and I've always tried close mic'ing the amp, like you would a guitar, but can now see this may have been my problem! I've never got a good sound at all from a mic on a bass amp.

Could it be to do with the higher frequencies phasing out slightly (since they will be coming from slightly different distances - from different parts of the speaker, or even different speakers)? Just a guess, but am I on track?
 
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