Mic Techniques?
- Thread starter djdarwin
- Start date
BigRay
New member
there are no quick fixes or "right" ways to do anything. Educate yourself.
Must Read Books...Also, be sure to peruse the the Audio Engineering Society's Internet Archive. (AES)...there is a fee, but it is well worth it. http://www.aes.org/e-lib/ I have learned a lot from snooping around there..
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
Sound Recording Handbook
Master Handbook of Acoustics
Behind The Glass
Total Recording
Tape Recorders
Sound recording practice
Professional Microphone Techniques
Principles of Digital Audio
The New Stereo Soundbook
The Microphone book
On Location Recording Techniques
Electroacoustical Reference Handbook
Audio Engineering
Handbook of Recording Engineering
Audio Dictionary
Handbook of Recording Engineering
From tinfoil to Stereo, a history of recording
Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook
Mastering Audio
The Mixing Engineer's Handbook
Must Read Books...Also, be sure to peruse the the Audio Engineering Society's Internet Archive. (AES)...there is a fee, but it is well worth it. http://www.aes.org/e-lib/ I have learned a lot from snooping around there..
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
Sound Recording Handbook
Master Handbook of Acoustics
Behind The Glass
Total Recording
Tape Recorders
Sound recording practice
Professional Microphone Techniques
Principles of Digital Audio
The New Stereo Soundbook
The Microphone book
On Location Recording Techniques
Electroacoustical Reference Handbook
Audio Engineering
Handbook of Recording Engineering
Audio Dictionary
Handbook of Recording Engineering
From tinfoil to Stereo, a history of recording
Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook
Mastering Audio
The Mixing Engineer's Handbook
Wow... Thanks for all that info Ray. It will take me a year to read all that. Figured someone would have a response like that but i was hoping for something like a paragraph or two.
Not a hard fast rule just what other hip hop producers tend to do.
My question should have been:
How do most hip hop producers have their artists position themselves relative to the mic?
Not a hard fast rule just what other hip hop producers tend to do.
My question should have been:
How do most hip hop producers have their artists position themselves relative to the mic?
Generally speaking, most hip-hop artist record with their face pointed straight down towards the floor. This allows them to view the lyric sheet they just wrote 10 minutes before they step up to track the parts they just came up with.
And it works great, because with the mic recording their mouth off-axis, the listener can barely make out their half-assed excuse for lyrics.
.
And it works great, because with the mic recording their mouth off-axis, the listener can barely make out their half-assed excuse for lyrics.
.
mshilarious
Banned
djdarwin said:
It's easier to answer to pop filter question. Usually those are placed close to the artist. It doesn't make a big difference, but it helps the artist see exactly how far the engineer wants the artist from the mic.
The distance from the artist to the mic is largely dependent on the mic, the voice, and the effect desired. With a condenser mic, about 12" is a good starting point. If "proximity" effect is desired, moving closer to a directional mic will enhance the bass response.
With a dynamic mic like a Shure SM7, closer distances are frequently used. That is because the SM7 has maybe the smooooovest proximity effect sound on the planet. It is also low output, so close can be good.
cello_pudding
Well-known member
its not the vocals, duh. did you guys read the first post?
its the LYRICS.
all you mother F$@^ with the niggas in da club
and the bitches n hos
with their nails and their fros.
in my face is where you shake yo booty
in my room is where i'll bump your hootie.
granted that only took 1 minute, as opposed to the usual 10.
its the LYRICS.
all you mother F$@^ with the niggas in da club
and the bitches n hos
with their nails and their fros.
in my face is where you shake yo booty
in my room is where i'll bump your hootie.
granted that only took 1 minute, as opposed to the usual 10.
PhilGood
Juice box hero
cello_pudding said:
Dude, we live in a society where shows like "America's next top model" are the hot topic and whatever trendy trash E and MTV dribble out ad nausium. Don't expect anyone in pop culture to HAVE an intelect, much less use it.
My daughter thinks all the worlds problems would be solved if there weren't so many fashion fuax pas. I try to challenge her mentally, but she believes she knows everything already. She has no idea what is going on in Korea, Isreal, Iran or Iraq, but she can name all the cute boys in a school of 1400.
PhilGood said:You mean as opposed to how all other vocals are recorded, right?
'cause hip hop requires different techniques because the sound travels in special ways, right?
Is that why they make special 'rap' mics?
Thanks to those who actually try to help.
Some of you guys are pretty determined to only talk sh*t. If you think i have a stupid question then dont answer it. Why be on this forum and take the time to read and reply if you only got hate to give out to these people?
I wasnt asking if rap is recorded differently than normal singing vocals. I wasnt implying that rap sound waves travel differently than normal singing vocals. I wasnt under the impression there were special rap mics.
Anyway no hard feelings... your less than helpful responses just help me to clarify my question further.
mshillarious says have the pop filter close to the vocalists mouth, but to keep the pop filter 12'' away from the mic itself...
Thanks MSHill for the response and pointing me in the right direction.
I was only trying to determine what the "standard" way of recording rap was. If i knew how most producers or engineers usually record rap then i could start from there and experiment where neccessary.
Based on mshillarious's comment i ask the following questions:
Is 12'' the standard distance for recording hip hop vocals?
Is 12'' the standard distance for recording singing vocals as well then?
Does lowering or raising the physical position of the mic relative to the performers voice effect the "Bassiness" or "Trebelness" recorded by the mic?
Is it best to "Aim" the words directly at the diaphram of the Mic in every situation?
PhilGood and Chessrock...
You guys got all the information and experience. Im just trying get answers. Im sorry if you guys think they are dumb questions, but i gotta ask em right? You guys were there one day trying to figure all this business out right?
If you guys could take a quick look at these couple that would great.
Thanks.
cappucci11
New member
cello_pudding said:
this argument is simply ridiculous... if you're going to criticize rap music just because the mainstream is watered down and emotionless, let's do the same for radio rock, adult contemporary, r&b and alternative. it makes you all look completely ignorant when you base your opinions of a genre of music on what is portrayed by the media as the most important artists. it's just as silly as me listening to those horrid bands velvet revolver and staind and saying that all rock music sucks.
slidey
New member
awww fuck here we go AGAIN
I wonder if this thread will get the usuall 3 pages of argument
(to the original poster) do a search on threads about rap etc etc & it would appear the majority of the threadsters don't like rap/hiphop all that much, unless of course they're in the rap, hiphop, beats forum
I wonder if this thread will get the usuall 3 pages of argument
(to the original poster) do a search on threads about rap etc etc & it would appear the majority of the threadsters don't like rap/hiphop all that much, unless of course they're in the rap, hiphop, beats forum
Harvey Gerst
New member
Unfortunately, there is no "standard way" or "standard distance" answer to your question (unless "It depends" can be consided a satisfactory answer). It depends on the actual singer/rapper, and the mic, and the lyric, etc.djdarwin said:
12" out from the mic is a good starting point, but you might hafta move in or out from there, depending upon other stuff. Same with raising, lowering, or angling the mic.
A lotta mics might work well for some singers/rappers at various placements, but nobody here can tell you to put a mic in this spot for a perfect recording, without knowing the mic you're gonna use, what else is gonna be used, your recording environment, or listening to the specific rapper/singer/song.
That's the real world answer.
roadwarrior
New member
Music! 
who in the heck EVER called Rap... music? But then AFAIAC the whole world has been, and continues to go to s%it anyway. It's no big surprise....it was all prophesied anyway.....so let it be I guess........
who in the heck EVER called Rap... music? But then AFAIAC the whole world has been, and continues to go to s%it anyway. It's no big surprise....it was all prophesied anyway.....so let it be I guess........djdarwin said:
You're welcome.
So, uh, in other words ... you were asking if rap was recorded differently than "normal" singing vocals?
DJ, your questions aren't dumb. It's just that they tend to get asked a lot on these boards, so some of us (namely me) like throw out a good-natured jab every now and then. Really, we do it in an effort to encourage people to do some research and search the archives. Not only is it much more helpful for guys in your boat, but it also helps keep converstaion a little more fresh.
In answer to your question ... there are no standard techniques or methods, because no two situations are going to be exactly the same. You have to learn to understand your unique recording situation, and learn how to get the best with what you have ... and that only comes through experimentation, trial and error, etc.
Most people on this board probably haven't given 2 seconds worth of thought to their room accoustics, so the first thing to consider is that, the farther you are from the mic, the more of a factor the room accoustics are going to play, so you might want to start out very close to the mic. From there, just experiment with raising/lowering and singing straight on until you get the balance you like. There are going to be differences (as you raise or lower it), so listen for them, and do what sounds good.
.
Harvey Gerst
New member
Look, Woody Guthrie talked over music, and so did a lot of beat poets.roadwarrior said:Music!
Is it music? Probably not in the mainstream traditional sense of the word.
Is it art? Absolutely, and it IS music. Is what Lauri Anderson does considered "music"? Brian Eno? Robert Fripps? John Cage?
I've only had two rap groups in here, but there is definitely a level of art and musicality to what they do. They took their craft very seriously, and I hafta respect that. (I don't take "polka music" very seriously either.)
As the old Cadillac ad said, "That which deserves to live, lives.").
mshilarious
Banned
You also asked about what was standard for sung vocals. Well, even less is standard there. With a singer who really actually truly can sing and knows how to project, distances greater than 12", maybe even 2' to 3', would be appropriate. While I am too unhip to cut rap tunes, I would expect that such distances are rather rare for rap.
When you speak (or rap), you will find that the breath pops from plosives (p, b sounds) with travel down towards your chin (not quite that far but generally speaking). That is one reason you might see microphones placed above the mouth. High frequency sounds, like s, sh, th, ch consonants, tend to travel in a straight line, so if you want to decrease or increase intelligibility of the lyrics (for example with a mumbly or sibilant singer/rapper), move the mic on or off axis.
When you speak (or rap), you will find that the breath pops from plosives (p, b sounds) with travel down towards your chin (not quite that far but generally speaking). That is one reason you might see microphones placed above the mouth. High frequency sounds, like s, sh, th, ch consonants, tend to travel in a straight line, so if you want to decrease or increase intelligibility of the lyrics (for example with a mumbly or sibilant singer/rapper), move the mic on or off axis.
PhilGood
Juice box hero
djdarwin said:
No these aren't dumb questions, I just keep wondering why anyone who asks about recording vocals has to treat rap and hip-hop as though there were some special secret that is different to other forms.
You have a person in front of a mic... no two people sound the same, everyone has a slightly different tone, style, articulation, approach, etc. You will have to experiment with placement, mic type and model, preamp, etc. It's really more about capturing sound that is pleasing to your ear and stands out in the mix. It might be soft-spoken or blaring loud. It doesn't matter what the style. Harvey has a rap artist come in and he automatically knows what to do: experiment to find what works.
Just imagine any possible technique used in any studio throughout the years. The second post gave great resources for recording, and that's what this is about.
I'd bet dollars for donuts that a technique used for jazz or country from yesteryears is a technique used in hip-hop today. Just learn what different recording techniques are and you will have the pallette loaded with colors to make a masterpiece!
I would, however, add that since rap is a very percussive style you will almost always need a pop filter. Foam might be the way to go for really close stuff.