Mic Pre amp / Compressor - benefit to simple studio?

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pure.fusion

New member
Hi all,

This isn't a "Which Mic preamp" post so much as a "would it benefit me and my simple studio" question.

I have people around to record vocals and this seems really precarious with regards to the input level. I always seem to be setting a really low input signal to allow for spikes. No, I can't expect any great technique from the singers in my amateur world.

So, RODE NT1A straight into Focusrite2i4. The results are ok. i can't complain except for the input spike issue. After tracking I then use software compression to then bring the dynamics into line.

Understanding that quality comes from every step in the chain, would something like a "TL Audio 2FAT Valve Preamp / Compressor" make a big difference to my world? I assume it would do the compression thing before it hits my crappy audio interface, but what about the sound? Would it be better/same/worse with the valve Pre/Comp in the chain with my current equipment?

If anybody has already recorded an A/B sample of a (a) crappy audio interface vs (b) Valve preamp, I'd love to hear it.

Also, I notice there are two types of valve preamps; those that run the tube a proper voltages, and those that run the tubes at lower voltages using a wall wart as a power supply. Any difference to be had here?

Any comments appreciated.
Cheers.
 
Chances are that money spent on improving your room acoustics plus more money on a different microphone would have a bigger impact on your quality than a pre amp.

I generally think a very expensive pre amp (and I mean expensive) can be a way to put the icing on the cake when the rest of your chain is near perfect. It's not a way to compensate for a good (but economy) mic fed into a pretty adequate interface in a room we know nothing about.

...if you see what I mean!
 
To your question of "would it benefit me and my simple studio," the answer is yes... But the amount of benefit vs. the benefit of putting that money towards a different piece of gear (nicer/different microphone for vocals, acoustic treatment, etc) is hard to tell for sure.

Almost everyone you talk to on here will tell you to treat your room (tracking AND mixing room) first, as that's going to be one of the biggest improvements in sound you hear first.

After that, I'd personally argue it's the microphone, then preamp, but it's all pretty subjective and situational, really. But feel free to go whichever direction you want.

I HAVE heard from a lot of professionals in the industry when I took a trip over to Nashville for a month (had some internships due to a friend who goes to the Belmont college for audio down there) that a good preamp dedicated to vocals can help your vocals stand out a lot more in a mix. Of course, again, it's subjective how much it's really affecting it and whether or not it's worth it over other gear, but I figure it's worth mentioning nonetheless. =]

EDIT: Hahaha, looks like Bobbsy beat me to the punch on the "acoustics -> mic -> preamp" quality statement. I guess that can just be taken as two people's advice on what to improve in your chain first.
 
Cool guys, thanks.

So, this easily confirms that I don't really need or want a Valve preamp. I'm comfy with that - I don't need a new shiny box on my desk. I don't need to produce (real) studio quality sounds.

But in terms of my want for compression during recording, where does this leave the studio guy with basic gear?

A lot of time is spent mucking around with mic input levels to avoid clipping before productive music making begins. It's frustrating because quite often the singer will warm up and sing an outstanding take, but will have exceeded the input level that was last set (that we all thought was safe) and there's a big distorted word in the middle of the take. I like this about as much as you do.

I have a Line6 POX X3 that I could use as compression in between the mic and the audio interface and , although I haven't tried it, i highly suspect this will only make the clarity of the NT1A worse than better. It's a POD X3 :/

Any comments or suggestions?
 
You need to get the singer to sing consistantly.

It is common for a singer to give you one level during setup....then when the recording starts, they belt it out a lot louder....but that's something you also need to anticipate when setting levels.
I've often started an actual recording take after setup....and when I saw the levels much higher than what they were during setup, I just let the singer keep going with the take, while I readjusted the levels....then we stoppped recording and started over. :)

I mean, it shouldn't be that big a deal getting a decent working range with most preamps.

Other than that, if you have other aspects of your studio up to snuff, a quality preamp can add the final touch.
By the way, some of the Sebatron pres (like the model I mentioned) are not all-valve pres. They feature a tube front end, but with a solid state back end....so it really is a great preamp. Plus the included EQ options are killer on those models. You can dail in a nice sound with just a flip of the toggle switch.
 
understanding gain structure is really critical here, you have said that you are nearly clipping, this should not be the case. Aim for average levels of -18dBFS with peaks at no higher than -10dBFS, believe me it makes a huge difference if you already aren't doing this, and if it's too quiet turn up your headphones NOT the gain, this is the most common mistake I see other engineers make, it happens all the time.

To answer your question though, I think it's a good idea to record with compression on with minimal amounts of compression it can sound transparent and bring the vocal forward, it will improve the headphone mix too for the singer, so there is a benefit to doing it, pre-amps do also vary massively so you have to know what kind of sound you want before even trying to record it.
 
I'd say if you can swing a compressor to track through go for it.
But you see the trend here, re compression, and the gain staging aspects to this.
To summarize; Tracking through compression can get you at least a step closer to a desired finished sound -reducing somewhat some of the degree and steps needed later.
But in the end and particularly with the issues you're laying out, it is (typically) nowhere near a cure all. A bit of compression can fairly easily be learned how to be applied w/o risk of making things worse downstream. But the gain staging -maintaining adequate head room, and mic technique points still apply (actually, over riding in importance IMHO.
 
Personally I don't like compression on the recording...cuts too many options later.

It's great to say "tell the singer to sing consistantly" but you can't always control them.

Frankly your best bet is to simply adjust your gain staging for lots of headroom, even if the singer has a wide dynamic range. Your mic and interface have a low enough noise level that you can get away with setting for peaks around -12 and allowing the rest to sit wherever it ends up. You can adjust levels and add compression later in a controlled manner.

FYI, I have the ability to add compression on every track but the only time I'll ever use it is on a a multitrack recording of a live performance (where things are unpredictable at best). However, even then I use it simply as a limiter to prevent clipping--but, even then, I try to set levels so the clipper is a protection of last resort.
 
Bobbsy said:
It's great to say "tell the singer to sing consistantly" but you can't always control them.
Click to expand...

No you can't. But sometimes it helps. I had a guy come in and after I showed him his peaks on the screen he understood and he improved drastically and we got some great takes. This was through a wind screen - AT4040 - RNP - Digi 002.
 
pure.fusion said:
But in terms of my want for compression during recording, where does this leave the studio guy with basic gear?
Click to expand...

You can actually compress to tape in the box.

Create an Aux track and make the Input "Input 1" and make the output "Buss 1"
Create a Record track and make the Input "Buss 1" and the Output "1-2". Insert your compressor on the Aux track, and there ya go. Compressing to tape in ProTools.

The signal flow is:
Mic > Mic Pre > Input 1/Aux in > Compressor > Buss 1/Aux out > Buss 1/Ch In > Record > 1-2/Ch out > Monitors.

I hope this makes sense. Let me know if you have any questions about it!!
 
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