mexico

[heatmiser]

Alright. We're going to slow things down a bit here with a mellow sort of waltz.

A good friend of mine turned me on to this tune last year and I've been listening to it a lot lately and decided to cover it this past weekend. It's called mexico. It's by cake.

I unintentionally slowed it down a little, and they have a trumpet solo that I replaced with guitars and keyboards and stuff, but otherwise it's somewhat similar I guess? As usual though, I had to dumb down some of the parts just to keep things in my comfort zone. I like that they tend to keep things really dry, which is the opposite of what I normally like, so there's a lot of dryness and a lot more empty space than I'm used to, but I think it sounds mostly ok? I struggled a bit right out of the gate with the first verse, but I think the vocals get better as it goes along.

Anyway...how's the mix?

1st mix - 2/10


2nd mix - 2/11


***3rd mix*** - 2/14 - (final?) - trying to combine what I like best of both above...more kick and bass, less cymbals than mix 1, but more than mix 2 - any better? I think I like this one:



Thanks,
Pete

 

[dobro]

There are three or four different 'depths' of reverb in this one. The drumkit is right out front, the bass is a bit behind it, the vocal's behind that, and that lovely whiny guitar is way back on the left. It's odd to have the rhythm section out front of the vocal. Is that what you wanted? The bvs could come up a taste.

Lovely tune, old droogie.

 

[Pinky]

Not familiar with the original and whether dobro's observations are a result of you trying to adhere to the original's feel, but I kinda like the quirky nature of this mix. I can hear everything clearly and the sound stage is balanced out (albeit dramatically with instruments having their place narrowly defined). This has a very retro feel but tastefully done, and accomplished.

There's not much bottom end to the kick drum, which I would change but it's personal preference.

 

[Btyre2013]

not bad, nice to hear something mellow for once! it doesn't make my ears bleed like metal so that's always a good thing

As for the mix, you have done a good job! but here's where I would improve it even more: I like the reverbs but think they could be even darker sounding and longer, at times I wish there was more verb on the lead vocals it sounds a little dry. The bass drum also could be a lot more pillowy sounding, especially for this style, which means removing some of the midrange and emphasising the subs more so it feels like it's underneath the bass guitar. Everything else I like including the balance.

 

[DM60]

My system had the vocals a little loud at the start, then it seemed to have settled in on the chorus. Cymbal tap sounded a tad loud as well.

Bass sounded nice and full. I'd like to know how you got that, sound really nice for this song.

Mix is good, my comments are more production opinions. Which we all know, ask 10 people, get 15 different answers.

 

[Bruthish]

Digging this...everything sounds clear and in its own space. Mixed really well, maybe a little more bottom end, but that's just personal pref.

 

[FoulPhil]

It sounds good to me. I can't really hear anything too out of place and the over all performance is done really well

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

The guitar by itself doesn't have the most interesting tone during the intro but I like it in the mix.
The drums sounds very dry and up front. Stylistic choice, I guess. The cymbals were too loud. During the vocal-less section around 1:20, they completely start to dominate the mix.

The performances all sound nice.
Not a lot of low end in general. Bass guitar sounds good.

 

[heatmiser]

There are three or four different 'depths' of reverb in this one. The drumkit is right out front, the bass is a bit behind it, the vocal's behind that, and that lovely whiny guitar is way back on the left. It's odd to have the rhythm section out front of the vocal. Is that what you wanted? The bvs could come up a taste.

Lovely tune, old droogie.

Thanks dobro. I took a lot of queues from the original version in terms of reverb, or lack of it. I guess I wanted the intro to be kind of sedate and lo fi, and then the drums, bass and vocals all come in bright and dry and up front. I don't think I put any reverb on any of those three things? Maybe a little on the vocal? BGVs are very faint on the original - I wasn't sure there were any until I listened closely. I like that they kind of are just barely audible here.+

Not familiar with the original and whether dobro's observations are a result of you trying to adhere to the original's feel, but I kinda like the quirky nature of this mix. I can hear everything clearly and the sound stage is balanced out (albeit dramatically with instruments having their place narrowly defined). This has a very retro feel but tastefully done, and accomplished.

There's not much bottom end to the kick drum, which I would change but it's personal preference.

Thanks Pinky. Yes, I followed some of the mix ideas from the original, but deviated from it in others. I listen to their version and I don't think about what space the instruments are in, but when I listened closely, I realized that some things were bone dry while others were set back quite far with verb or room sound or whatever. I wanted to play around with that some myself rather than trying to put everything in the same room or whatever. Just using so little reverb generally was interesting as I usually put tons of it on everything!

The kick here is strange, isn't it? I don't have a kick mic. I usually use an LDC which gets plenty of low end. For this one I used a dynamic mic probably meant for vocals. I kind of like the mid rangey sound, but I see it drew some attention and I will try to mess around with it tonight.

not bad, nice to hear something mellow for once! it doesn't make my ears bleed like metal so that's always a good thing

As for the mix, you have done a good job! but here's where I would improve it even more: I like the reverbs but think they could be even darker sounding and longer, at times I wish there was more verb on the lead vocals it sounds a little dry. The bass drum also could be a lot more pillowy sounding, especially for this style, which means removing some of the midrange and emphasising the subs more so it feels like it's underneath the bass guitar. Everything else I like including the balance.

Thanks Btyre,

There seems to be some consensus on the kick. I don't really know what I'm doing there, but I will mess around with it. I'm not sure how much low end info is there because of the way I recorded it. I was just happy to have it heard and not interfering with the bass. I'm not sure there is any verb on the lead vocal? I tried adding some before, but didn't like it which is odd because I usually use tons! I'll try again and see though. Thanks.

 

[heatmiser]

My system had the vocals a little loud at the start, then it seemed to have settled in on the chorus. Cymbal tap sounded a tad loud as well.

Bass sounded nice and full. I'd like to know how you got that, sound really nice for this song.

Mix is good, my comments are more production opinions. Which we all know, ask 10 people, get 15 different answers.

Thanks. I had the vocals up down and everything in between. I'd be happy to turn them down some if that might make it less jarring at the start there. I think I agree on the cymbals, particularly the HH. I think others agree as well.

The bass guitar is an active Squire jaguar bass plugged directly into my Roland VS2400...played with a pick. There's some comp on there (3:1 with fast attack & release) and I may have notched out a few dbs of a couple annoying frequencies with EQ?

Digging this...everything sounds clear and in its own space. Mixed really well, maybe a little more bottom end, but that's just personal pref.

Thanks Bruthish. Other than getting more low end out of the kick as others noted, I wonder if the bass can come up any? I don't know where else to get more low end out of this one...I'll see what I can do. Thanks!

It sounds good to me. I can't really hear anything too out of place and the over all performance is done really well

Thank you Phil!

The guitar by itself doesn't have the most interesting tone during the intro but I like it in the mix.
The drums sounds very dry and up front. Stylistic choice, I guess. The cymbals were too loud. During the vocal-less section around 1:20, they completely start to dominate the mix.

The performances all sound nice.
Not a lot of low end in general. Bass guitar sounds good.

I think I agree on the cymbals. Drums should be dry and up front, but I may have overdone it? Not sure.

Funny about that opening guitar - what a pain! I used an old 1940's archtop that I normally just strum and mic, but the original song has this really lo fi guitar sound there. I remembered I have this old dimarzio pick up that clips on to my archtop, so I used that and plugged it into my guitar amp and added some spring reverb. Kind of a pain, but yeah, after all that, it does sound plain!

 

[NotThatBright]

That actually sounds like a real hi-hat, like the way it sounds in real life when drums are being played in the room. In fast rock songs like most of the stuff I listen to I prefer a bit of "treatment" of some sort on it, but it sounds perfect in this song. Might be a little loud, since it was the first thing I noticed, though. Nice song. Your voice sounds familiar as hell... do people tell you that you sound like any particular guy from a 60s or 70s band? I know I've heard a very similar voice before singing over relatively similar music.

 

[heatmiser]

That actually sounds like a real hi-hat, like the way it sounds in real life when drums are being played in the room. In fast rock songs like most of the stuff I listen to I prefer a bit of "treatment" of some sort on it, but it sounds perfect in this song. Might be a little loud, since it was the first thing I noticed, though. Nice song. Your voice sounds familiar as hell... do people tell you that you sound like any particular guy from a 60s or 70s band? I know I've heard a very similar voice before singing over relatively similar music.

Nope. I don't get a lot of vocal comments generally. When I first came here, I got lots of "sounds robotic" type comments, so I worked on letting loose a little. When my parents heard some of my tracks they were like, "you have good rhythm. Too bad about the singing" At one point I remember someone here said I sounded like Leonard Cohen. I was like, Oh, I've heard that name, I wonder what he sounds like. A few seconds into the first you tube clip and I was horrified! I hope you're not thinking of him!

Yes, the hats are basically just as they sound in the room. Probably too loud. Drums are such a pain sometimes. Overheads in particular. When I alter them to change the cymbal sound, so much snare was also picked up that I end up altering the snare even when I don't want to. I'll have a go at messing with the overhead tracks tonight though and see if I can tame the cymbals without totally changing everything else. Thanks.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

I thought your voice was nice, definitely one of the stronger points of the mix.

 

[kindafishy]

Good! Cake fan here. I like this song already, and I think you are doing it justice with this lift. I am enjoying a lot of the sounds you have recorded and I think they are presented quite well.

Something that is getting to me on this mix though, is that there seems to be an awful lot of up front content in the 2k - 5k range. While this does promote clarity, I am getting fatigued as there seems to be too much focus on this region.

Nice job overall!

 

[heatmiser]

I thought your voice was nice, definitely one of the stronger points of the mix.

Thank you.

Good! Cake fan here. I like this song already, and I think you are doing it justice with this lift. I am enjoying a lot of the sounds you have recorded and I think they are presented quite well.

Something that is getting to me on this mix though, is that there seems to be an awful lot of up front content in the 2k - 5k range. While this does promote clarity, I am getting fatigued as there seems to be too much focus on this region.

Nice job overall!

I think you're kinda right. Hopefully that's the same area where that hi hat is, because I did cut quite a bit from that area just now.

I'm glad you enjoyed it though.

I posted a new mix in the 1st post and I'll add it here as well.



I did the following (not sure I like it better?):
1) made EQ cuts in overheads where I thought the cymbals were most abrasive
2) turned down the OHs
3) made EQ cuts and boosts to give the kick more low end
4) turned up the kick
5) turned up the bass
6) turned down the lead vocal

I think the cymbals are less annoying now, but the drums sound kinda dull. I dunno...should I keep going further in this direction? Lower the OHs and vocals further to make it more warm sounding or something?

 

[Pinky]

If you're worried about the drums being dry (and they are), add some reverb. It doesn't sound like there's much, if any right now.

I want to echo that the vocals work/fit this song nicely. You're either improving or just found a sweet spot here (or maybe some of the worse critics in your audience need not be your intended audience?). I'm not a terrific singer and there's maybe a 50/50 even split on those who think it's painful and those who think it works well with the music I'm doing. Coincidentally, the people who don't like them would never normally listen to the types of music I make anyway.

[rant]Ultimately making music for yourself with a mind's eye on always improving is probably the best strategy. Success will come on its own, as it's largely luck anyway. Just look at all the talent on youtube with 2,000 views. Then look at the crap getting a million hits. [/rant]

 

[heatmiser]

If you're worried about the drums being dry (and they are), add some reverb. It doesn't sound like there's much, if any right now.

I want to echo that the vocals work/fit this song nicely. You're either improving or just found a sweet spot here (or maybe some of the worse critics in your audience need not be your intended audience?). I'm not a terrific singer and there's maybe a 50/50 even split on those who think it's painful and those who think it works well with the music I'm doing. Coincidentally, the people who don't like them would never normally listen to the types of music I make anyway.

[rant]Ultimately making music for yourself with a mind's eye on always improving is probably the best strategy. Success will come on its own, as it's largely luck anyway. Just look at all the talent on youtube with 2,000 views. Then look at the crap getting a million hits. [/rant]

Thanks pinky. I wasn't so concerned with dryness as the level and harshness of the cymbals, the HHs in particular. Plus the lack of low end in the kick and across the mix.

I could probably go back and mix this more like I would one of my own tunes...drums lower and with verb, vocals lower and with verb, etc, and it might sound cool, but I saw this presentation as kind of a challenge I guess?

Not sure I have an intended audience? I guess it's just me in the future? Like, I want to be able to pull out these tracks 5 years from now and play them and not be disappointed or embarrassed.

You folks here have nothing invested in it, so I figure you can be more objective about it than I can right now.
I guess I figure the clinic right now can hear this the way I will in the future. Objectively...if that makes sense?

 

[Pinky]

Thanks pinky. I wasn't so concerned with dryness as the level and harshness of the cymbals, the HHs in particular. Plus the lack of low end in the kick and across the mix.

I could probably go back and mix this more like I would one of my own tunes...drums lower and with verb, vocals lower and with verb, etc, and it might sound cool, but I saw this presentation as kind of a challenge I guess?

Not sure I have an intended audience? I guess it's just me in the future? Like, I want to be able to pull out these tracks 5 years from now and play them and not be disappointed or embarrassed.

You folks here have nothing invested in it, so I figure you can be more objective about it than I can right now.
I guess I figure the clinic right now can hear this the way I will in the future. Objectively...if that makes sense?

Objectivity is the clinic's greatest asset. I was referring to friends/family you may play your music... not always the best critics (depends on the friends/family).

The cymbals don't sound harsh on the last mix, and really didn't on the first mix either although they were a touch more pronounced. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with the drums as they are, in light of the style of the rest of the mix. Like you suggest, I wouldn't want to mix all my music like this. As is - it's a fun mix!

 

[rayc]

Your rendition reminds me of Wreckless Eric's songs.
Cool stuff, the slide/lap steel could use more reverb OR less volume.

 

[heatmiser]

The cymbals don't sound harsh on the last mix, and really didn't on the first mix either although they were a touch more pronounced. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with the drums as they are, in light of the style of the rest of the mix. Like you suggest, I wouldn't want to mix all my music like this. As is - it's a fun mix!

Cool. Thanks again Pinky. I think I almost prefer the first mix still. I don't know that I was able to execute what others suggested as well as I might have. It seemed simple enough, but something isn't quite right. Anyway, I'm reasonably happy with it either way and I appreciate the encouragement.

Your rendition reminds me of Wreckless Eric's songs.
Cool stuff, the slide/lap steel could use more reverb OR less volume.

Thanks ray. Never heard of him. Did a quick search fearing the worst, but I actually kind of liked the two tunes I listened to. Kind of rough, but fun. Sorta like my tracks in that sense I hope.

I cranked up the reverb on my amp for that guitar part, and I think I even added a little more digital verb to it after the fact. It seems about right to me, but I give it another listen. Thank you,