Metal guitar tone

no one is wrong you guys know this there is no rules to how you must do something!

if it sounds good either way then your doing it right :p

agreed??
 
TelePaul said:
The biggest heavy metal band in the world would disagree with you.
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Maybe, maybe not.

Scooped guitar sounds METAL when solo'd or when the guitarist is chugging away on his own but will sound thin and weak in a mix.

The guitar is a predominantly "middle" instrument and these frequencies are required in a mix to give the tone body. The un-scooped (bassier and treblier)frequencies will get overrun in a mix and you'll be left with nothing.

Would you cut the "bass" on a bass guitar? Or cut the "treble" on cymbals?
 
TelePaul said:
The biggest heavy metal band in the world would disagree with you.
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Listen to ride the lightning again. The guitar are almost all mids. You might be thinking of the Justice album. Even metallica thinks that album sounds like shit.
 
Farview said:
Listen to ride the lightning again. The guitar are almost all mids. You might be thinking of the Justice album. Even metallica thinks that album sounds like shit.
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Actually, they pretty much mixed the bass end outta Justice. Why do you think Newsted was so pissed? And they taped a coin to the kick beater to put more 'click' in the bass drum.
 
Scoop the mids on every instrument in metal mixes...all the time! This works with every band, every single time. If your metal band has a female vox...scoop the mids....acoustic guitar....scoop those mids.....french horn.....get those mids OUT!

Oh yeah, also trigger the kick so the dynamics are totally sucked out of it. While you're at it, bury the snare in the mix so it sounds like nothing more than a "tick". Don't let the bass in the mix at all because all metal bassists just mimic the guitar lines anyways. For screaming tracks, have the singer scream into a tin can through an sm57 and an old DOD grunge pedal. Do this four times for each vocal sequence. Pan those takes hard right and left and of course, scoooooop the mids!

I hate mixing metal bands. They always think they know everything about music making. These were techniques suggested by the many teenage metal bands coming into my studio that have seen the making of the Black album way too many times.
 
pappy999 said:
I hate mixing metal bands. They always think they know everything about music making. These were techniques suggested by the many teenage metal bands coming into my studio that have seen the making of the Black album way too many times.
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Obviously your examples are exagerrated...but did you know the Black Album hasnt left Billboards top 200?? Theres a reason for that.
 
Obviously your examples are exagerrated...but did you know the Black Album hasnt left Billboards top 200?? Theres a reason for that.
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Yeah..it's a good album. That's the reason. Or maybe it was the mid scoop on the strings!

The point I am trying to make is do what sounds right for each and every mix. There are no absolutes in mixing.
 
pappy999 said:
Scoop the mids on every instrument in metal mixes...all the time! This works with every band, every single time. If your metal band has a female vox...scoop the mids....acoustic guitar....scoop those mids.....french horn.....get those mids OUT!

Oh yeah, also trigger the kick so the dynamics are totally sucked out of it. While you're at it, bury the snare in the mix so it sounds like nothing more than a "tick". Don't let the bass in the mix at all because all metal bassists just mimic the guitar lines anyways. For screaming tracks, have the singer scream into a tin can through an sm57 and an old DOD grunge pedal. Do this four times for each vocal sequence. Pan those takes hard right and left and of course, scoooooop the mids!

I hate mixing metal bands. They always think they know everything about music making. These were techniques suggested by the many teenage metal bands coming into my studio that have seen the making of the Black album way too many times.
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send all your metal bands to me. I can do it with a smile on my face AND manage not to scoop the mids when it isn't called for.

BTW Here are some of the studio notes from puppets and justice.

http://www.sweetsilence.com/GearSlutzNotes.htm
 
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ecktronic said:
That being said, I would still add more low end to the guitar tone. Its best to record with a little more low end than you think you need. This way you can hi pass any unwanted low end rumbles.

Eck
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I'd recommend getting it right as possible at the source and tracked... with the only thing left to do is lightly compress the bottom
 
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TelePaul said:
Ive read enough interviews as to how Justice was mixed to know what Im saying.
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They taped the half dollar to the head, not the beater. They used DR. Scholls moleskin to hold it on. Lars used the plastic sided of the DW 5000 standard beaters. Did you check out the link in my last post?
 
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I also like the album, farview is talking entirely about production details. Wasn't questioning them as such, more his demeanour. Farview, if you read this, Pm me. You're a cool guy I don't wanna fall out.
 
What I've found works great for metal guitars because I used it on a death metal band I recently recorded. Sm 57 on main cab in my case it was solid state Ibanez amp close miced on a 4x12 cab, then a LD cond (AT4040) miced about 5" away pointing in the center of a 4x12 B52 in class A tube mode, angle them away from each other almost in a V.

Results were amazing as soon as I can I'll post an audio link.
 
SuicideNote said:
Uhhh 16 channels for drums on MOP, holy #@@(@^@&^@^@!. 4 Neumann u87s for room mics. I quit.
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Yea, but he was using 57's on the toms. So it equals out.
 
TelePaul said:
Far what albums have you recorded that i might know?
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I was present for a bunch of sessions in the late 80's and early 90's when I was an amp tech. My clients included:
Tony Iommi (headless cross)
Ace Frehley (forgot)
Vinnie Vincent (Second album)
Bon Jovi (New Jersey)
Skid Row (Slave to the grind)
Savatage (gutter Ballet)
Manowar (Triumph of Steel)
Pantera (cowboys and Vulgar)
etc...

Once I got my own studio going, I've done
Manowar
Forest of Impaled
Rod Morgenstein
DSG
Wet Animal
Spacy T
Bill Dickens
Bludgeon
Novembers Doom
Eidolon
etc....

I was present at a bunch of other sessions as a friend of the band, staff, producer, etc... including last year when I spent a couple days with Zakk while he was recording his latest CD.
 
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