MD8 Digital Quality

S

SirRiff

New member
Greetings,

I got an MD8 (its so damn easy!) and I use it with my computer now of course.

This sounds stupid but, what the heck is the recording quality of the MD8 as opposed to a direct computer setup. MD's are compressed and such, but is it equivalent to 16bit recording?
24 bit computers to a harddrive are "true" digital recording i suppose, but can someone who knows about this give me a "relative" quality comparison. Especially since MD is a compressed format? Thanks

I think MD8 sounds pretty damn good for its simplicity.
SirRiff
 
Re: sound quality

SirRiff, an interesting website is www.minidisc.org
If you use the search function, there's a lot of information on this.
I own and use a Tascam 564 minidisc portastudio which also uses the
same ATRAC2 data compression as your MD8. Even though the sonic
quality is not 16 bit non-compressed "CD level", it's quite good.
It's usually a good idea to add reverb later to minidisc recordings as
the ATRAC compression can cut off reverb tails. I also like using a mild
compression ratio like 2:1 on vocals so that they can be recorded
"hotter" before going into the minidisc recorder. One benefit to minidisc
recording is that it can be more forgiving of an ambient noise environment
like at home or live because it tends to cover it up. Of course a decent or
better microphone pre amp makes a big difference too in the quality of
your recordings! Are you happy with your mike(s) right now?
 
I know there is aot of controversy on this subject, and I think alot of it really boils down to CD quality.
CD quality is nothing other than 16 bit/44.1 Khz Redbook Standard audio. Anything that has been done
in 18, 20 and 24 bit will have to be converted to the Redbook standard if its going to be on a CD with the exception of CD24. DVD-A is a differerent story. Regardless of what mystical articles you read about re-dithering and things like Sony Super Bit Mapping, the end result of a Redbook CD is 16bit/44.1 Khz.

The ATRAC compression I think is the most confusing to alot of people because there is a misunderstanding of what it happening during the compression process. ATRAC, samples and categorizes frequencies into different "bins", these bins are based on what the typical human ear can hear between a set range (20Hz to 20Khz). Most people do not hear all IF (intermediate frequencies), and since you cant hear it, why not remove it right. There are so some frequencies that are hidden by other frequencies (masked), so lets remove those too ok. So after its all said and done, a compression of 5:1 leaves you with 1/5th the data leaving you with only the data you can hear. For the home semi-professional use its fine because the end result is usually played back over home or car stereo. The ATRAC and 16bit/44.1 becomes a problem when doing ping-pongs because the ATRAC recalculates and starts to drop stuff. If I can avoid ping pong, things are pretty good for the most part during mixdown. The saving grace of the MD8 is that it has an analog mixer section to help repair some of the changes ATRAC might have made. The MD8 wont cut off the reverb tails because the reverb usually isnt recorded onto the disk but rather its post compression in the analog mixer section. A good outboard eq and compressor can do magic if used correctly during mixdown. Depending on how you pre-master, you can get a pretty good recording for what the MD8 costs, most consumer listeners won't hear a difference because it is 16bit/44.1Khz just like a CD. (CD's all sound differentt from eachother regardless of the source data)
The MD8 does not have the capability to do big projects because of its limitations in the mixer arena and it only has 8 tracks. For demos, 3 or 4 piece band, and song writing its a great tool. For selling millions of records that compete with other "signed" artists your better off going to a facility suited to those kind of jobs. The Adat format made 24 track recording affordable for intermediate studios to do freshman albums at a much lower cost, but the industry standards for "professional" studios are still pretty much unaffordable.
 
atomictoyz, how would you rate minidisc versus an analog reel to
reel 4 track 1/4" or 8 track 1/4"? Thanks for your info, by the way.
 
AT is gilding the lily quite a bit with that description...

Bottom line, ATRAC algorithms DO throw away a portion of your audio (the stuff the algorithms have been programmed to remove - and what is inaudible to some may not be inaudible to everyone.)

MD is fine for demos and non-pro applications, but it will NEVER gain professional attention for anything serious simply because it is throwing signal away. It is destined to remain at best a home recordist's recording format.

And as far as that purpose, it beats multi-track cassette formats significantly... but it can't be seriously compared to ANY other recording format that DOESN'T throw away a portion of the signal. And is certainly not on par with even a modest Blackface ADAT!

Bruce
 
Blue Bear is correct, anything than removes information based on what someone else thought was necessary isnt as good as something that doesnt. The creators of ATRAC forgot that there are siblance and low frequency wave forms that react with each other and the listening environment, you just can take them away you can hear them directly, the human ear is very complex. There are some low frequency wave forms that you feel but dont hear as well. As Blue Bear and I both agree that for demo's, hobbiest recording and writing, the MD8 is great tool, but doesn't have what it takes to do "pro" level recording, with or without ATAC. As far as reel to reel, Im biased, I cut my teeth on 1/2 inch 16 track and 2 Inch 16 and 24 track. You can get alot more signal on analog tape than you can with digital, some newer A/D converters for DVD use 24/192 and its alot closer in restoring the headroom needed to compete with analog. Im not sure of the condition or the quality of the reel to reel your thinking of but it all depends on what you want to do and what you can afford. ADAT XT-20's are high quality machines that offer compatibility with flexibility, you have a multitude of digital interfaces available for a pretty reasonable cost, and you can upgrade to more tracks. There are recorders like the Alesis HD24 and the Mackie MDR24/96 that are pretty reasonable if you like hard disk recorders, and even the Yamaha AW4416 is cheap considering it comes with the mixer, 32 bit effects, eq's, automation and CD pre-mastering. For about 3 grand thats a screaming deal if all you ever need is 16 tracks.
What is the purpose and how much money do you have is usually the biggest concern. Do you already have eq's, patchbays, digital or analog effects? If you get ADAT or a reel to reel be sure to get a decent console with some room for growth. I like consoles from Mackie (Im a seattle boy) and the older RAMSA 32X8X4 studio boards for budgets, the faders are smooth and the layouts are pretty open.
Only you can decide whats best for you.

Peace,
Dennis
 
BTW Atomic, I wasn't trying to criticize your previous comments in any way... just thought some clarification was in order! :)

Bruce
 
I've got the best mixer money can buy-a Behringer Eurodesk!
Seriously, thanks Bruce and AT for your feedback, I mainly record just
to keep improving as a vocalist and to have fun. The most I'd do with
the minidisc setup would be to show someone I wouldn't need
Autotune in a more important recording. My main concern on going ADAT
would be since Alesis went under, I figure that machine repair and lack
of eventual availability of ADAT tapes could be a hassle (even more than
minidisc data discs).
 
No Critizism taken Bruce, the clarification was needed since I never really get to the point.

The MD8 has a +/- 12% pitch function to make slight tuning changes.

I didn't know Alesis went under, just reoganized.

Adat tape is made by Sony, BASF, Quantergy and a few more, there is enough ADAT users to keep the
availability of tape for many generations to come.

I use my MD8 for guitar based instrumental stuff, I master it on pc with Sound Forge 5.0 XP. I do some stuff with my 5 yr old daughter, and it just for fun. I did the band thing and worked in a studio already when I was younger and I like my job and being able to spend time with my family.

I hope to in the next few years convert my 2 car garage into a personal studio with more capability than my current 9x9 microstudio, I can't even use monitors for mix down because the back wall is too close.

By all means if its not your job, and its fun, do what ya gotta do.

Peace,
Dennis
 
Myself being an Md8 owner I have to agree with some of the above comments. However as a proffesional musician on a limited budget, I have to say that for an "off stager" this unit is more than adequit. If you are looking for radio quality it isnt gonna happen. If you take your time and use a good mastering program you can get above average results. I know bands that have gone in to the "studio" and spent thousands of dollars on a project with no better results than I am getting on my $1200. unit. The first CD payed for it 6 times over. The average artist has to sell a lot of units to pay for that $8000. recording project. If you have the buget -good,if you dont this is the way to get started.
 
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