I've heard two different projects before and after mastering and my reaction was "wow, they really added a lot of high end". Sounded real harsh. I once read that Elvis got upset about his recordings getting too much EQ when mastered. Indeed, most professional efforts, sound much brighter to my ears than what I'm mixing. I've only run into a few CD's which are left kind of neutral. Is this EQing an automatic thing that most mastering engineers do? Is this what they call sweetening? It sounds higher than 12K and obviously applied to the whole recording while compressing it. I can't make myself make my mixes sounds that bright without disliking it. Yet, my ears attenuated to those two mastering efforts and they sound fine now, just like most professional efforts do. Yet, almost every engineer I've read or talked to says leave it natural and to cut instead of add. Anyone?
Mastering
- Thread starter Apple
- Start date
sonusman
Banned
The new standard for audio production indeed has a lot more high end in the final product. Yes, your ears get used to the tonality very quickly. Your ear/brain relation is like that. You can quickly ignore what is initially "wrong" with the audio. But what is "wrong" with it is based upon your "expectations" of what is "right" too. I post mp3's that I think sound absolutely horrible, too much high end, not very much depth, etc...and some people think it sounds very "pro".
Most modern music is mastered with so much limiting/compression that you HAVE to use some high frequency make up. Also, to keep the limiter/compressor from pumping too much, you need to remove a lot of low end. The result? What you hear now in most modern releases. Does it sound good to your ears? Probably not initially, but you will ignore the harshness quickly.
What I DON'T like about this is how fatiquing the audio is. I can usually only listen to a song or two of modern releases before it hurts! This trends started to get bad in the early 90's, and has only gotten worse! Country music (I hate most country music by the way...
) used to be a safe haven from the volume wars, and "lo-fi" sound, but many recent releases have exibited the same brick wall limiting effects that rock productions have used for some time now. So, I can't even get a break listening to country! Hell, Rush's new release follows the volume war theme!!! Oh well....
Ed
Most modern music is mastered with so much limiting/compression that you HAVE to use some high frequency make up. Also, to keep the limiter/compressor from pumping too much, you need to remove a lot of low end. The result? What you hear now in most modern releases. Does it sound good to your ears? Probably not initially, but you will ignore the harshness quickly.
What I DON'T like about this is how fatiquing the audio is. I can usually only listen to a song or two of modern releases before it hurts! This trends started to get bad in the early 90's, and has only gotten worse! Country music (I hate most country music by the way...
) used to be a safe haven from the volume wars, and "lo-fi" sound, but many recent releases have exibited the same brick wall limiting effects that rock productions have used for some time now. So, I can't even get a break listening to country! Hell, Rush's new release follows the volume war theme!!! Oh well....Ed
Jagular
Active member
Hmmm…that’s interesting. That explains a few things. I’ve always compared my mixes (well the couple I have done anyway) 
to commercial recordings. I’ve always noticed that the commercial recordings sound very midrangy compared to mine, but they are louder (which drives me nuts when I am listening to mixed mp3 playlists that includes my stuff). However, I like the over all sound of my mixes better (when I get them sort of right finally).
Interesting. Maybe I should stop striving to make my stuff sound like commercial recordings.
to commercial recordings. I’ve always noticed that the commercial recordings sound very midrangy compared to mine, but they are louder (which drives me nuts when I am listening to mixed mp3 playlists that includes my stuff). However, I like the over all sound of my mixes better (when I get them sort of right finally).Interesting. Maybe I should stop striving to make my stuff sound like commercial recordings.
true
yeah the new Rush album is almost completely devoid of any dynamics.. which is not good for their type of music.. but I can see your point.. Nowdays it's just expected that you make it sound hot... and that means heavy compression and limiting.. every era has it's distinct mark on mixing music... kinda like in the 60's, the trend was to almost hard pan everything, .. alot more experimentation in those days... seems like as time has gone by.. we've been passed down rules, set in stone, on how to mix... .. but.. it all sounds the same after a while... how many new CD's that have come out lately that doesn't have the bass, kick, and vocals dead center..... but that's another subject all together.. lol.. in turn how many CD's that have been realeased by major lablels that aren't brickwalled soundwise..
yeah the new Rush album is almost completely devoid of any dynamics.. which is not good for their type of music.. but I can see your point.. Nowdays it's just expected that you make it sound hot... and that means heavy compression and limiting.. every era has it's distinct mark on mixing music... kinda like in the 60's, the trend was to almost hard pan everything, .. alot more experimentation in those days... seems like as time has gone by.. we've been passed down rules, set in stone, on how to mix... .. but.. it all sounds the same after a while... how many new CD's that have come out lately that doesn't have the bass, kick, and vocals dead center..... but that's another subject all together.. lol.. in turn how many CD's that have been realeased by major lablels that aren't brickwalled soundwise..
Neil Ogilvie
Still Learning.......
Any advice on eq and compression settings to get the commercial sound?
I mean, it sells and if I need to record an ep to make money one day it would be helpful.......
I have no problem with selling my soul.
I mean, it sells and if I need to record an ep to make money one day it would be helpful.......
I have no problem with selling my soul.
sonusman
Banned
lomky said:
That is part of the equasion lomky. There are also issues with how modern recordings just don't allow transients to truely peak in volume. Lossing those peaks means that the midrange stays loud for much longer than if you allowed peaks. Shit, that ain't quite the best way to explain it.
You have to understand what makes up the sound of something. The snare is a perfect example to use in modern recordings. I HATE the modern "smack you right in the ears at full volume" snare effect. The transients of the snare exist fairly high up. That "crack" in the sound is usually higher than around 5 or 6KHz. Those are very short lived transients. You crush those transients, and use make up gain on the limiter, what are you left with? More midrange, and midrange that actually last's longer overall (the decay rate of the midrange is not as fast after limiting. So, it isn't JUST that you have more mid range, the mid range "hangs around" very loud longer than the snare that isn't brick wall limited. Of course, that really depends on how your use the compression and eq in tandem. The approach while tracking has something to do with this too). Deep snare used to be all the rage! You got a lot of power out of them. You could do some cool stuff to artificially make some more crack on them. Nowadays, everybody is using much more shallow snares and tuning them higher it seems. That agressive bottom is gone. Now you just have transients, and a rather annoying "ping" in the sound. You compress the hell out of it, the transient is out of whack with the "ping" and you are left with a long "ping" sound. Yuk!!!
Jagular!!! Buddy, go with the high road here!!!
I have worked on some music that isn't produced to be loud and has some nice "tone" to it. Nope, it doesn't neccesarily stack up the same way on the CD changer to other modern releases with the "new sound", but to my ears, and to those that really enjoy music that contains dynamics and great tone, the appreciate the production approach! Stay with what sounds good.Neil, hire Tom Lord Alge to mix you. You will get what you deserve from that devil!!!
He can have all the money and fame from that rubbish he mixes! I lost all respect for him when I heard that Avril Lavigne crap!!! Of course, maybe the mastering engineer fucked that one up, but I think the mixing style contributed too! It is amazing to read his credits and see some great stuff from 10 years ago and to hear his latest contributions!!! I mean, he worked with Jeff Beck on a CD!!! Oh well, just my ramblings of the current volume wars.
Ed
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I agree 100%.........!sonusman said:I lost all respect for him when I heard that Avril Lavigne crap!!! Of course, maybe the mastering engineer fucked that one up, but I think the mixing style contributed too! It is amazing to read his credits and see some great stuff from 10 years ago and to hear his latest contributions!!! I mean, he worked with Jeff Beck on a CD!!!
Oh well, just my ramblings of the current volume wars.
Ed
Mastering was done at Sterling... no doubt it was done to be "competitive"...
donkeystyle
New member
does anyone else find the sparta album harsh? i didn't notice it until the other day........i really like the band, but i could rarely get myself to listen to the album...........then i was listening to it the other day......i don't know if my ears were extra sensitive that day or what, but it was really hurting ........... i dunno.......it felt kind of like the day after band practice.......u know......when u realise that u were standing too close to the drummers cymbals and should have been wearing earplugs.
Neil Ogilvie
Still Learning.......
donkeystyle said:
Totally.
Way too much of something. It hurt though
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