mastering

C

coma king

New member
i am using a delta 1010 interface with vegas pro multitrack software and soungforge 4.5 sound editor. instead of having my final product mastered. i start thinking about this when i start the recording. the most important part of a rock mix is the drums. working in the digital domain makes controling them much easier.what i do is record click tracks for all the songs first, which i can visually look at each beat of the click in a track file . now i play the drums not worrying if i am perfectly in time, then i record 1 beat of every drum and cymb.Ithen paste these in place of the originals.in time with the click track.now every beat of the snare or bass or whatever are exactally the same timbre and level,thus get this mix right on one song and duplicate this mix on the rest. next set up abass guitar sound you like and even if it takes 2 months do not change these setings or record any thing else untill the bass is done. now all the bass parts are the same in timbre and level. the guitar is diferent because you may want a different sound on each song but you can still controll the levels the same. Its the same with vocals, set it up and don't change the level untill you're done. these are the things that mastering fixes . this may not be as good as the real thing but you'll find you have a much better outcome. Happy recording.
 
Er... yeah... ok...

...and your end result is a lifeless, soul-less, quantized, all-the-same-sounding piece of ca-ca...

But it's true... you wouldn't need to worry about mastering it -- no one would think it'd be worth your time or money!

I can save you a good chunk of time right now and give the same results -- buy yourself a copy of Band-In-A-Box, plug in the chord changes you want to use (if any!), select a musical style from the large list of preset styles, choose your tempo... and you're done! You don't even need to actually play the drums or bass at all - it fills in everything for you, lifeless and quantized and all! Just like you're doing now, but you can throw a BackStreet Boys song together within minutes!

No... don't thank me -- just send a cheque for all the money I saved you to Blue Bear Sound.........

*sheesh* :rolleyes:

Bruce
 
I'm only talking about the drums and bass and main guitars anything else would be cosidered the "icing" and yes should be done seperately. besides its only proper to record these instruments dry,so different effects and delay settings will give you dynamics. even in a "real"studio when recording a band they only keep the drum tracks usually everythig else is rerecorded.
 
No sir... "real" studios use the recording method best suited to the band and the material. Sometimes that means recording the band in one shot, sometimes laying bass & drums together, sometimes overdubs to a click.... there is no set methodology....

But the surest way to get lifeless rhythm tracks is to sequence, quantize, and re-use the same sounds over and over again.....

Do you really beleive the bass should sound the same on every song? What about guitar??? Same amp, mic, guitar on every tune???

What happened to capturing the interaction between the drummer and the bassist? (Something that is IMPOSSIBLE to duplicate via quantizing)

You're new here, and your inexperience shows, you'd do well to read a lot of the posts - there are a number of pros here that you will learn a lot from!

Bruce
 
Yea but I’m just a guy sitting in my basement trying to do a 10-song cd. I play all the instruments so there is no interaction between me and a bass player. When I listen to my Heavy Rock cd’s the drum tracks sound pretty, steady and sound the same between tracks and it’s hard to tell what a bass sounds like really, other than you can hear the notes or if it’s got too much treble or bass and I didn’t say use the same guitar sound, I said use the same level and besides since Les Paul invented multitrack trial and error has been how new recording technics were developed. I’ve been playing for 35 years. Went thru school band and choir and have been in rock bands for 25 years. The last thing I would do or want to do is create a lifeless recording, if it was like that I wouldn’t do it. Every studio, which has been 2 that I have been in, recorded us the way I described. I am willing to learn, believe me that is why I’m here.
 
Gidge!!! LOL....I don't think I can even jest like that concerning drums....:rolleyes:

Now we are going to have to hear the fruits of coma king's labor aren't we. This should prove to be interesting.

Heil to the "real" drummers of the world. Heil to the engineers that allow drummers to be real.

And thank god people still respond better to music with life, character, nuance, and feeling.

I think I will go bust a drum machine and crash some applications.....;)

Ed
 
i never said iwas a good drummer so for timeings sake this is what i do,and i thought you guy s said nobody would laugh at you .seems like Ed does a lot of this.must be nice to have always known everything.
 
CK... everyone here will be helpful, but the sarcasm comes out when newbies insists on spouting misinformation as "the way it is....", even though they have no actual experiences on the practical aspects of recording.

The recording strategy you describe has some fundamental problems that will ensure lifeless, dull, and poor recordings.... and when we point that out, you insist on spouting the "...well I'm being innovative..." excuse....

You can be innovative and still get good results -- unfortunately, your methodology will not allow that to happen easily...

Bruce
 
I was actually laughing at Gidge's comment coma king. I don't find YOUR post a laughing matter at alll!!! You missed the joke.

Indeed, I DO want to hear your work. I think you should just cut the chase of the burden of recording "real" drums and just download some soundfonts and use Fruity Loops like everyone seems to be doing. This would cut the process of having to record your drums and edit one of each drum to use in the editor.

Better yet, why not just use some triggers and record your stuff midi and use soundfonts.

There is not "real" drummer around? At it's best, the way you are going about this is still going to sound like a drum machine. Maybe your ears aren't quite attuned enough yet in listening to recordings, but most "real" drum tracks I have heard in modern recordings still have nuance and character which keeps them from sounding like a drum machine.

There was another member on this site who claimed that there was not drummer "good enough" to play his simple straight ahead rock....:( So at the expense of his stuff sounding very still, he went about producing drum tracks sort of in the same way you are going about it, and the results showed to everyone but him!

One of the reasons I have avoided doing much fixing of stuff on a DAW is that I never want to lose the ear for a take on ANY instrument that is brilliant. Yes, I have fixed a hit here or there, but usually, it is in and out of the editor and quickly as possible. Some stuff isn't even worth spending the time to fix. I have recorded some bands that has great songs, and great performances that were full of "errors" and nobody seemed to notice them. It is interesting what a little distance from the song can do for perspective.

I suppose that since you aren't a drummer that you have to make do with whatever way you can get a track to work with. I just hope you never lose that ability to hear that there is much more to producing a great track than "perfection".

Anyway....

Ed
 
I get the point, right now though thats what i gotta do. I am wondering if anyone can tell me how to post some of my stuff so you guy's can critique it
 
Dont feel bad now. I ve used that same method just to give a real drummer the gist of what I want on a track. You can explain away till you are blue in the face or you can show them an example and save precious time.

You see that is useful
 
I am wondering if anyone can tell me how to post some of my stuff so you guy's can critique it
Click to expand...

Coma King,
Go to Nowhere Radio.com and sign up (free). Upload your songs there, then go to the MP3 Mixing Clinic (on this site) and post a link.

If you need more details as to just how to do the above, post questions here.

And don't let the sarcasm scare you away. These guys are actually trying to help you.

Let them.

Queue
 
coma,
Looking forward to hearing some stuff. If you can remember to post a msg on this thread when you get something up, I'll be sure to give it a listen.

Queue
 
coma,

hopefully my comments didnt insult you....if it did, it was not intended.....

i just think if you have access to a drumkit and a way to record it "live" it should be done....while the performance may be looser than the way you are doing it, it will give it the "live" feel that programmed drums lack....also, I dont think recording this way will make it not need mastering....the best engineers in the world can record a project and it still needs mastering....

I use Fruity Loops and samples because I dont have access to a drum kit (im too cheap to spend the $$ and I really dont have the room)...I would give myleft nut (if you can get it back from Ed) to record "live" drums...

also, I think using the exact same settings on all songs for the various instruments will make for a very sterile project...but post a mp3 on NoWhereRadio and maybe you can open our eyes a bit....

Ok, if it isnt you Ed, maybe its SoundCracker:D
 
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