Mastering Shootout: LANDR, Mastering Box, AAMS vs Real People

Martin maniac,
You seem to be on a path of learning that will not brook any interference from well meaning, & possibly more experienced, outsider.
That's fine, it's even good. It is foolish, in that instance, to post and seek posts that only supports your view/perspective in a forum taht invites, by the very dint of it's name, variety, difference and commentary.
You are, it seems, trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs.
 
Wow, I can't believe Cakewalk did that. Apparently they sent out e-mails to all their customers with the free offer, the Sonar boards are lighting up with thanks from many people. What a wonderful addition to my plug-in collection !! It sounds great too !!! What's really nice is not only is it a stand alone effect, it also is set up as a Pro-Channel module. It's modeled after the Universal Audio limiter...cool beans !!!!
 
rayc said:
Martin maniac,
You seem to be on a path of learning that will not brook any interference from well meaning, & possibly more experienced, outsider.
That's fine, it's even good. It is foolish, in that instance, to post and seek posts that only supports your view/perspective in a forum taht invites, by the very dint of it's name, variety, difference and commentary.
You are, it seems, trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs.
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May I suggest you send your songs out to be mastered by a professional, as that's probably your only option. If you're not open to new technologies, experimentation and trying new things, I certainly can't say anything to help you.
 
Dear Martin,
You silly, silly chap. Being a keen HR hobbyist I learn something every day. Regarding mastering I learnt, some time ago, that regardless of the tools I have on hand, including some very cool Sennheiser head phones that are used for detailed listening but not for mixing or mastering, I don't have the hearing needed for mastering. I can learn the necessary abstract knowledge and have lots of HR experience but I don't have the ears for the job. There are a couple or three people using these forums, actual ME's excepted, who have demonstrated the critical listening and skills set needed to master their own work to a standard that is, to my poor ears, equal to a professional & GOOD M.E.
I do send songs to M.E.'s if the song & mix is good enough.
I pay electricians to work on the wiring in the house because I don't have those skills, I pay plumbers, other tradies and professionals for the same reason. I do what I can, learn where I can and I have an objective view of my own abilities.
 
Dude, you don't know me. I worked as a wireman for Rockwell Automation for 12 years, I know wiring. We used to wire up 1,000 horsepower motors, I built many control panels for assembly lines, all over the world. I was trained with laser shaft alignment for these same 1,000 horsepower motors. I worked for years as a plumber, doing both remodeling and new construction. I've been playing guitar for almost 50 years. I've been playing out twice a week for two years now, doing a volunteer gig at two separate senior centers. I get rave reviews and great applause every time I perform. What I am saying is I have the capacity to learn how to master my songs. I'm currently putting my mastering plugins together. Are you always this rude to people on the internet that you don't know ??
 
So let's keep in mind that the professional master was the most popular by a good margin. The rest was a mixed bag. Some critical listeners liked none of them.

So ... I don't know. The arguing about "I'll do it how I want and who cares" is unhelpful. And really, if your mixes are good, LANDR probably won't ruin them. But it wont neessarily make them better than you could by just using a cakewalk plugin to increase loudness. Mastering box will add too much low end, and AAMS will probably ruin your mixes completely. All of the automated services will scoop the mids.

So either a pro or or a thoughtful self master (you can reference auto masters if needed) are probably the best bet for quality control. And ... forums like this! I'd like to see a mastering submission section here. Post the original and master and get feedback. We do it with mixing, why not mastering?
 
Thanks for bringing it back on topic.

I think that would be a good idea. I've seen in the last year or so less people seem to be frightened off by this subject, and more are genuinely wanting to learn this skill.
 
As I've said, automatic mastering has mixed results. That's why I'm pursuing the self mastering route. I think I can do it. Judging from what I've heard this afternoon, I'm encouraged.
 
I mastered my 2nd CD myself. It wasn't great, but I'm okay with it. The 3rd I sent out to have someone else do and I am happy with the results. Even though this is a home recording site ( and I agree with your premise to do it all yourself), I now advocate to send tunes off to someone else for mastering. The only reason I say that is because a mastering engineer can remove your monitors and your mixing room from your mixes. If your mixing environment isn't great, which most home recording environments aren't, then the mastering engineer can hear the weak spots and adjust for them.

My studio is cube shaped which is the worst dimensions for mixing. I don't really have a firm grasp on the low end and that showed up in my 2nd CD. Even with all the trapping and absorption, I don't think I'll ever have a great room. But a mastering engineer spends tens of thousands of dollars on their room and monitors so they can accurately hear and adjust mixes.

I know no one will listen to my crap, except for the occasional download in North Korea or Shootmeindabackistan, there's the off chance that one of my tunes might considered for a tv or movie spot, I would want it to sound good. (Already had a couple of placements!!)
 
Is saying your previous response was silly really rude?
Martin Maniac said:
Dude, you don't know me. I worked... I built... I was trained... I worked.... I've been playing guitar.... I've been playing out... What I am saying is I have the capacity to learn how to master my songs. Are you always this rude to people on the internet that you don't know ??
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AND you seem to willfully mis-comprehend.
Similarly, you know nought of me.
I've worked...
I've built...
I was trained...
I've been playing guitar...
etc etc etc.
In my previous post I stated my circumstance, not yours, as part of my response to your instructions for me, (to pay for mastering).
You ought to read the words on the lines before reading between them.
Inference does not always aligned with what was implied.
The only things implied by me were: a) headphones mastering is funny, b) you need to get your ears ready for mastering before your gear and c) you may need to assess your abilities for this very specialized task.
I cannot take responsibility if you take umbrage.
If you want my musical bio, volunteer & work history I could do that for you but I probably wouldn't put in that much effort on a sunny Sunday.
 
Massive Master said:
One of the first things you learn as a mastering engineer is why mastering engineers almost never master their own mixes.
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Ya it'd be great if you have the budget, I don't have that luxury. I got extremely lucky this weekend. I acquired $400 dollars worth of plugins for $89 bucks. Ya I can afford $89 dollars but I can't afford $1,200 for 12 songs. Having my own plugins will pay for themselves over time.
 
Martin Maniac said:
Ya it'd be great if you have the budget, I don't have that luxury. I got extremely lucky this weekend. I acquired $400 dollars worth of plugins for $89 bucks. Ya I can afford $89 dollars but I can't afford $1,200 for 12 songs. Having my own plugins will pay for themselves over time.
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I'll bite one more time and have my final word about this:

At least you see why the cost of having a human that does mastering for a living is worth something right? It does make the difference between an algorithm that guesses and a real guy using the tools (and way better tools by the way) that knows what he is doing and has the unbiased ability to do what he does.

That being said, some may just think that the auto ones are ok for them. That is fine as well. But be prepared for inconsistency in the results.


The issue many have stated is the fact that you can get as close to the 'auto mastering' sites by just doing it yourself. You may have the plugins necessary to do the same. Maybe not. That depends on any persons abilities.

That being said, other than a simple 'one off' demo, I would not be the guy to 'master' my own mixes. I learned long ago that it just isn't the way it works. I personally however would master my own projects before sending it off to a 'auto/algorithm' mastering site.
 
Well Jimmy69, yes of course there's value in a professional doing masters, IF THE BUDGET IS THERE. An artist like Lady Gaga, can assume she'll sell a large number of cd's, allowing her an expensive budget. A guy like me who is making music as a hobby for iTunes, doesn't have that income coming in to cover the expense. Because of the state of the music business, I'd be damn lucky to make $10-$20 a month off my digital sales. I've got a few bucks, a few plugins, some equipment, decent monitors and headphones...I have tried mastering my own, but I get better results from LANDR, than my own mastering attempts. So why shouldn't I use it ??

I am aware of the inconsistencies of both LANDR and AAMS programs, I've had mixed results from both. Some very unpleasant. So I know first hand from my experience with these programs. I wouldn't know that if I never tried them. Some of the songs came out good. So it's a mixed bag.

In my efforts to get better sounding recordings, I have bought some plugins and a nice pair of Sennheiser HD650 headphones. After experimenting with these plugins I have no doubt my mixes will improve. In the meantime though, I'll still dabble with the automated software and try to top that with my own mixes.
 
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Martin Maniac said:
Well Jimmy69, yes of course there's value in a professional doing masters, IF THE BUDGET IS THERE. An artist like Lady Gaga, can assume she'll sell a large number of cd's, allowing her an expensive budget. A guy like me who is making music as a hobby for iTunes, doesn't have that income coming in to cover the expense. Because of the state of the music business, I'd be damn lucky to make $10-$20 a month off my digital sales. I've got a few bucks, a few plugins, some equipment, decent monitors and headphones...I have tried mastering my own, but I get better results from LANDR, than my own mastering attempts. So why shouldn't I use it ??

I am aware of the inconsistencies of both LANDR and AAMS programs, I've had mixed results from both. Some very unpleasant. So I know first hand from my experience with these programs. I wouldn't know that if I never tried them. Some of the songs came out good. So it's a mixed bag.

In my efforts to get better sounding recordings, I have bought some plugins and a nice pair of Sennheiser HD650 headphones. After experimenting with these plugins I have no doubt my mixes will improve. In the meantime though, I'll still dabble with the automated software and try to top that with my own mixes.
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Well, I never said anything to you that wasn't obvious in the results. I merely stated that the results from 'auto mastering' are not going to be consistent because they can't be.

If you wish to compare yourself to 'Lady Gaga', then that is impressive. If you actually make $10-$20 a month, then you are doing well. Props!

I am not arguing with you man. You seem to be arguing with yourself.

You have the tools to do this yourself. I only suggest taking the time to realize what you are doing is possible. And then realizing you might ask yourself if that is even possible. Then after doing it yourself you might realize that the suggestions given make sense. I'm not judging you, just giving advice as to what I have found myself.

Best! :)
 
No, I'm not arguing with myself. I tried posting a song that I mixed and everybody pounce on me telling me how much it sucked...even though it was self mixed. Even though I have plenty of plugin's now, my skills aren't that good, because it's a rare day that I try my hand at mastering. Getting the new headphones and monitors may help me to try more often. The new headphones don't lie, they make mixing problems stand out like a sore thumb. I tried to apply a few of the plugins to my mix and was told to get rid of that "crap."
 
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