Mastering is all about being loud.
- Thread starter ruben68
- Start date
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Tell me about it... 
(rhetorically speaking of course)
(rhetorically speaking of course)It seems like the record industry considers horrible dynamics as regular and slightly less worse dynamics as good. I think each genre benefits from better dynamics, it makes music more lively and less tiring to the ears. With some genres, a somewhat distorted sound can positively effect the feeling of a song. But this effect can be achieved without having to compress the entire mix, right? For instance by adding some distortion to the drums.
Mo Facta
Farts of Nature
Truth be told I haven't analyzed any new albums lately. Are pop and rock albums still slammed to oblivion? I find myself going backwards and listening to music that was made when it was about fidelity and dynamics.
AC/DC is killing it for me lately. Mutt Lange is the man! Turn up an AC/DC album to the same perceived loudness of any new band and the difference is clear. SO much better.
I wish we didn't have to worry about being commercially competitive in terms of loudness if you want your song on the radio. I also wish people would realise that when you have a dynamic song it sounds BETTER when you turn up the volume.
I swear there's a new phobia: turningupthevolumefutherthanthreephobia.
Cheers
AC/DC is killing it for me lately. Mutt Lange is the man! Turn up an AC/DC album to the same perceived loudness of any new band and the difference is clear. SO much better.
I wish we didn't have to worry about being commercially competitive in terms of loudness if you want your song on the radio. I also wish people would realise that when you have a dynamic song it sounds BETTER when you turn up the volume.
I swear there's a new phobia: turningupthevolumefutherthanthreephobia.
Cheers
R
RAMI
Guest
Not another one of these threads. Jesus Christ.
I've addressed the whole "just turn it up" bullshit before. It's all well and nice to say "just turn it up", but then what happens when the next song in your playlist blows your head off because you forgot to turn it back down? What happens when you have to walk all the way back into your living room to first of all turn up one song, and then have to FUCKING RUN back into the living room to turn it down when the next song almost disentegrates your speakers?
"just turn it up" sounds good on paper, but it's far from being anywhere near realistic.
CRANK IT!!!!
I've addressed the whole "just turn it up" bullshit before. It's all well and nice to say "just turn it up", but then what happens when the next song in your playlist blows your head off because you forgot to turn it back down? What happens when you have to walk all the way back into your living room to first of all turn up one song, and then have to FUCKING RUN back into the living room to turn it down when the next song almost disentegrates your speakers?
"just turn it up" sounds good on paper, but it's far from being anywhere near realistic.
CRANK IT!!!!
ReplayGain
R
RAMI
Guest
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
There use to be a standard that most music stuck to...and then yeah, you set one level on your system, and there were no crazy jumps from album to album.
Thing is...it's the digital loudness craze that created the "up/down" issue to begin with.
Digital manipulation of the sound for more perceived level has created a NO standard, standard. Everyone now uses some different approach...some go for max level possible, others less, and some still try to maintain more traditional standards.
Also...not all music works out sounding good at the MAX level...which also makes it hard for all releases to sound right....or the same in loudness....so you still end up adjusting the volume. I can even hear it on the radio, where they attempt to normalize it all, but depending how hard a song was pushed, it still sounds different in level.
Not to mentoin...now you have the TV audio trying to reel some of that shit back in....so they're imposing a loudness standard, which is yet again different.
There's also all kinds of audio mangling that happens and artifacts that get added to your audio with the excessive digital compression for loudness, so it's not doing anything good to your tracks.
I don't mind LOUD, I like to crank up the volume and I also hate constantly playing with the volume knob to keep things where I like them.... but you can't deny that before the "loudness wars", you actually COULD play a whole bunch of albums in a row with one set volume on your audio system. Now shit is all over the place.
So yeah..."CRANK IT" sounds good on paper, but it really hasn't helped the audio. It was better before the digital loudness....and you could still CRANK IT!
Lol. No one listens to albums anymore. Music always was, is, and will be driven by the kids. They don't give a shit about dynamics or preserving some ancient "standard". They don't sit back and listen to an album from beginning to end. You relics are fighting a losing battle. Hell, your battle has been lost for a long time. Get over it already.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
That is exactly the situation where variations in mastering level are most annoying.
Vinyl is trendy with the 20-somethings right now. They're buying used LPs and turntables. I see them at flea markets and thrift stores buying records by the dozen. I'm willing to bet they're listening to whole sides of LPs if not whole albums. They may be a minority, but the trend setters usually are.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Albums....or individual songs.....it's the same thing.
What you constantly miss is that no one is complaining about *listening* to music loudly. I probably track/mix louder than most folks here, so it's not about that.
When you use digital manipulation to force all the dynamics up to the threshold of digital audio....you mangle the EQ balance....and you introduce artifacts. When those mixes are then further digitally manipulated for lower rates....like MP3 stuff, all that mangling and artifacts are further exaggerated, and you end up with something that wasn't there when you mixed the song.
This isn't about people no liking to listen to music played loud.....it's got nothing to do with that.
AFA as the "kids"....they just got use to hearing what is being played. When we were kids, the music on cheap AM car radios sounded great to us, but later on, as we grew up and got to FM, and got to having really decent stereo systems, then the sound of the AM radio fell short.
If all you give the "kids" is crappy 128 MP3s to listen to....that's all they will know.
It's like the guy in the Newbie section who's been tracking guitar with sims....asking if it might be a better option to get an amp and a mic. I mean....he's probably been doing nothing but sims, so that's what he got use to and to him it probably sounded good.
There's nothing wrong with having audio "standards". It's not something the average listener needs to be conscious of, but it you are going to record for more than just yourself, then standards are what make it all work across many platforms.
Anyway....you have it wrong. It's not about just wanting to listen to soft, quiet music. The difference in the auditory experience of a LOUD compressed-to-shit song...and that same song with dynamics but equally LOUD is easily obvious to even the most basic listener, and most all would pick the latter....but if they only get the LOUD compressed-to-shit stuff to listen to, then that's what they learn to accept and get use to.
What you constantly miss is that no one is complaining about *listening* to music loudly. I probably track/mix louder than most folks here, so it's not about that.
When you use digital manipulation to force all the dynamics up to the threshold of digital audio....you mangle the EQ balance....and you introduce artifacts. When those mixes are then further digitally manipulated for lower rates....like MP3 stuff, all that mangling and artifacts are further exaggerated, and you end up with something that wasn't there when you mixed the song.
This isn't about people no liking to listen to music played loud.....it's got nothing to do with that.
AFA as the "kids"....they just got use to hearing what is being played. When we were kids, the music on cheap AM car radios sounded great to us, but later on, as we grew up and got to FM, and got to having really decent stereo systems, then the sound of the AM radio fell short.
If all you give the "kids" is crappy 128 MP3s to listen to....that's all they will know.
It's like the guy in the Newbie section who's been tracking guitar with sims....asking if it might be a better option to get an amp and a mic.
I mean....he's probably been doing nothing but sims, so that's what he got use to and to him it probably sounded good.There's nothing wrong with having audio "standards". It's not something the average listener needs to be conscious of, but it you are going to record for more than just yourself, then standards are what make it all work across many platforms.
Anyway....you have it wrong. It's not about just wanting to listen to soft, quiet music. The difference in the auditory experience of a LOUD compressed-to-shit song...and that same song with dynamics but equally LOUD is easily obvious to even the most basic listener, and most all would pick the latter....but if they only get the LOUD compressed-to-shit stuff to listen to, then that's what they learn to accept and get use to.
Lol. Too hilarious. I'm not "missing" anything. I don't disagree with you "audiophiles" (lol) in principle. I'm only saying that it's been the same tired song-and-dance from the relics for almost going on two decades now. No amount of internet hand wringing will change it. "Raw Power" became the loudest album ever back in like 97. "Death Magnetic" was 10 years ago. Jeez, just move on.
I hate to break it to you dinosaurs, but there is a standard. It's called loud. It's been that way for 20 years. I'm sure your Steeley Dan and Jimmy Buffet records are nice and "dynamic" so just keep listening to them. No one is stopping you. No one is taking them away from you. No one is forcing you to smash your mixes. Relax.
I hate to break it to you dinosaurs, but there is a standard. It's called loud. It's been that way for 20 years. I'm sure your Steeley Dan and Jimmy Buffet records are nice and "dynamic" so just keep listening to them. No one is stopping you. No one is taking them away from you. No one is forcing you to smash your mixes. Relax.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Look who's calling everyone else "dinosaurs"...the guy still stuck in '80s surf-punk.
Yes...you are still missing the point.
It's not a war against listening LOUD...it's about how the loud is achieved.
Oh....and many of those loudest albums you mention, sonically sound like shit.....but hey, they sure are LOUD!
Yes, if a proper standard existed....then all the music could still be played LOUD, but without the digital mangling, which would work for both the "kids" who you say don't care ('cuz they don't know anything else), and the "stodgy audiophiles".
Yes...you are still missing the point.
It's not a war against listening LOUD...it's about how the loud is achieved.
Oh....and many of those loudest albums you mention, sonically sound like shit.....but hey, they sure are LOUD!
Yes, if a proper standard existed....then all the music could still be played LOUD, but without the digital mangling, which would work for both the "kids" who you say don't care ('cuz they don't know anything else), and the "stodgy audiophiles".
Lol! Really? You're gonna talk about my music? Really? Seriously? You? 
I know you, miro, like to argue literally anything to death, but try to open your mind and follow along here - I do get your point. Stop saying I'm missing your point when you're completely missing mine. A G A I N (caps and spacing - compressed for loudness yet dynamic) I don't disagree with the premise of your soapbox ramblings.
My issue with the collective audiophile wannabe "argument" is that it's tired. It's scripted same-old-same-old. You guys just copy-and-paste each other. Just turn it up! It's an old and stupid mantra. You've lost the battle. Try to come up with a new take. A new stance. A fresh perspective. You're trying to force an ideal that not everyone buys into. Bands don't care and mastering guys are powerless shmoes just doing what they're told. I really don't think many people that cry about this even understands what they're talking about. You just parrot each other. Me personally, I'm not pro or anti loudness. I don't give a shit. Much of the stuff I listen to is barely demo quality. I don't care how it's recorded or mastered as long as the songs are good. I would just like, for once, the relic crowd to have a fresh argument about it, or just STFU. That's all. I know it will never happen, but I have a slim sliver of hope for some of you.
I know you, miro, like to argue literally anything to death, but try to open your mind and follow along here - I do get your point. Stop saying I'm missing your point when you're completely missing mine. A G A I N (caps and spacing - compressed for loudness yet dynamic) I don't disagree with the premise of your soapbox ramblings.
My issue with the collective audiophile wannabe "argument" is that it's tired. It's scripted same-old-same-old. You guys just copy-and-paste each other. Just turn it up! It's an old and stupid mantra. You've lost the battle. Try to come up with a new take. A new stance. A fresh perspective. You're trying to force an ideal that not everyone buys into. Bands don't care and mastering guys are powerless shmoes just doing what they're told. I really don't think many people that cry about this even understands what they're talking about. You just parrot each other. Me personally, I'm not pro or anti loudness. I don't give a shit. Much of the stuff I listen to is barely demo quality. I don't care how it's recorded or mastered as long as the songs are good. I would just like, for once, the relic crowd to have a fresh argument about it, or just STFU. That's all. I know it will never happen, but I have a slim sliver of hope for some of you.
There used to be something called the RIAA curve. A loudness standard which assured that all recordings fell within limits determined by the NAB and the record companies of the time. It assured that there weren't drastic differences from one record to the next. One of the reasons that mastering came about. Back in the day when relic audiophile wannbe's actually cared how the music sounded. I guess I'm too old now so I have a bunch of stuff for sale. Contact BrontoFart Studios for details.
R
RAMI
Guest
I thought the RIAA curve had nothing to do with volume, but was about EQ. The reason volumes didn't fluctuate much from record to record is because a vinyl record can only handle so much volume before the needle jumps off. I don't know this for sure, I'm just saying I thought this was the case.
If I'm right, I bet there was even a "vinyl loudness war" back then, where everyone was trying to get their records as loud as they could without screwing up the playback. People's intentions were probably the same as they are now, but they were limited by the physical limitations of the medium (vinyl).
I'm talking out of my ass, so none of this might be true.