Mastering Company Recommendations

SouthSIDE Glen said:
I have heard stuff done by *pupils* of Tom Volpicelli - student mastering engineers only - that would put my skillz in mastering to shame. Just imagine what Tom V. himself could do. I'll stick to mixing, thank you very much.
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Thanks for saying Glen! I heard on my last day of class this year that one of those students is now working at a very nice facility in NYC.

I'm "breeding" my own competition and will make myself obsolete in a few years. :)
 
masteringhouse said:
Thanks for saying Glen! I heard on my last day of class this year that one of those students is now working at a very nice facility in NYC.

I'm "breeding" my own competition and will make myself obsolete in a few years. :)
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Ah, you're just thanking me for sticking to mixing so I won't come along and blow you out of the mastering water ;) :D (JUST KIDDING!!!).

Seriously, though, when you ran that listening test a while back, I was very impressed with what some of your folks could do with a 2mix, and sicerely congratulate you and your progeny. I would through one other observation out there re that experience that I only bring up now because I think it's relevant to the current discussion...

As I said, I was indeed impressed with what you guys could do with a 2mix, but frankly, much of what you guys could and did do was indeed on the order of what I would consider fixing problems with the mix itself, and not just enhancing or polishing the mix.

I suppose it's somewhat semantic; just where does one draw the line between "fixing" and "enhancing" a mix, anyway? I don't have a good technical answer to that; I can only say, using that specific test as an example, that much of what your best student samples did were things that, if the mix were in my hands, would have been done before I even handed it over to you guys for mastering.

This is not to take away anything from anyone. I have the technique for getting stuff going in mixing, but I could never do to a mixdown what you guys did. And from personal experience I know from what that test just what you guys'd be capable of if you had started out with mixes that didn't require so much "fixing".

And, as you have I'm sure figured out a long time ago, as someone who just loves mixing, I get disheartened by the apparent trend among the more "amateur" boards (for lack of a better term) like this one for folks to feel it's OK to just put together a homemade mix with the plan to use guys like you to make up for their rookie shortcoming. It could be so much better - for them, for you, and for the mix - if they treated engineering the mix with the same respect that they treated mastering.

G.
 
I've done my own and I've sent some off to be mastered, but on balance, I very much prefer to let someone else do the mastering. I just can't get far enough away from my mixes to be as objective as I need to be. When you spend time concentrating and steeped in your mix, you can lose your objectivity. It happens to me at any rate. :cool:
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I suppose it's somewhat semantic; just where does one draw the line between "fixing" and "enhancing" a mix, anyway? I don't have a good technical answer to that; I can only say, using that specific test as an example, that much of what your best student samples did were things that, if the mix were in my hands, would have been done before I even handed it over to you guys for mastering.

And, as you have I'm sure figured out a long time ago, as someone who just loves mixing, I get disheartened by the apparent trend among the more "amateur" boards (for lack of a better term) like this one for folks to feel it's OK to just put together a homemade mix with the plan to use guys like you to make up for their rookie shortcoming. It could be so much better - for them, for you, and for the mix - if they treated engineering the mix with the same respect that they treated mastering.

G.
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I don't disagree with any of this Glen but I will say this.

Many of the folks on this forum are musicians first, engineers second, with shallow pockets besides. They just want to get things on "tape" the best that they can with the budgets and experience that they have. Recording and mixing at a larger studio is definitely not within these confines, however mastering is usually within a budget at this level. Hence the hope that a mastering job will get them to "the next level" and fix the issues. I try to set my client's expectations on what can and can't be done. For the most part they are realistic about this. I also make suggestions about a mix before I even start mastering and will ask for a remix if possible to correct those issues. It would have taken too long to do on the forum here.

Becoming a good engineer (recording, mixing, or mastering) takes time and experience. This isn't something that you can get with a plug-in or specific hardware however much the marketing department of some companies would like you to believe.

A plug-in like Ozone will get you closer, but it isn't going to take the place of someone that went through years of working at a discipline, went through the expense of a getting good room, good monitors, and mastering grade gear. For close to the price of Ozone you could very likely get a very good mastering job done, so it's actually a good value. When you consider the price of a monitoring system that will allow you to hear the mix in a way that allows one to correctly identify issues in a mix (and you can't easily fix what you can't hear) it's definitely a value.

Well enough "salesmanship" I wasn't trying to do that anyway and don't like doing it. Just bringing up a point or two.
 
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masteringhouse said:
Many of the folks on this forum are musicians first, engineers second, with shallow pockets besides. They just want to get things on "tape" the best that they can with the budgets and experience that they have. Recording and mixing at a larger studio is definitely not within these confines, however mastering is usually within a budget at this level. Hence the hope that a mastering job will get them to "the next level" and fix the issues. I try to set my client's expectations on what can and can't be done. For the most part they are realistic about this. I also make suggestions about a mix before I even start mastering and will ask for a remix if possible to correct those issues. It would have taken too long to do on the forum here.

Becoming a good engineer (recording, mixing, or mastering) takes time and experience. This isn't something that you can get with a plug-in or specific hardware however much the marketing department of some companies would like you to believe.

A plug-in like Ozone will get you closer, but it isn't going to take the place of someone that went through years of working at a discipline, went through the expense of a getting good room, good monitors, and mastering grade gear. For close to the price of Ozone you could very likely get a very good mastering job done, so it's actually a good value. When you consider the price of a monitoring system that will allow you to hear the mix in a way that allows one to correctly identify issues in a mix (and you can't easily fix what you can't hear) it's definitely a value.

Well enough "salesmanship" I wasn't trying to do that anyway and don't like doing it. Just bringing up a point or two.
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And equally, I don't disagree with anything you said either.

But I would point out that - assuming they are doing this with the purpose of getting a serious music project "to the next level" and not just hobbying around - for the price of a typical entry-level 8-channel home studio they could easily rent all the studio and engineer time they needed for the whole process from tracking to mastering, and not have to make any sacrificial choices at all.

But if one wanted to be completely honest, what's really happening is that the average home recordist is led to believe by manufacturer marketing and Interbull that making "next level" recordings is easy and that it is indeed just a matter of having an LDC or two and a plug or three, and it's not until it's too late that they find out that's simply not the case, and wind up depending upon you guys to bail them out. I don't begrudge you this, we're on the same side here, but you guys are certainly not hurting because of this - or at least not as much as those who work in the earlier phases of production.

Though now you do have the added evil of trying to distance yourself from the hacks out there who call themselves "mastering services" because they have a copy of Blowzone and too much free time on their hands. I don't envy that part of it. ;)

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
And equally, I don't disagree with anything you said either.

But I would point out that - assuming they are doing this with the purpose of getting a serious music project "to the next level" and not just hobbying around - for the price of a typical entry-level 8-channel home studio they could easily rent all the studio and engineer time they needed for the whole process from tracking to mastering, and not have to make any sacrificial choices at all.

But if one wanted to be completely honest, what's really happening is that the average home recordist is led to believe by manufacturer marketing and Interbull that making "next level" recordings is easy and that it is indeed just a matter of having an LDC or two and a plug or three, and it's not until it's too late that they find out that's simply not the case, and wind up depending upon you guys to bail them out. I don't begrudge you this, we're on the same side here, but you guys are certainly not hurting because of this - or at least not as much as those who work in the earlier phases of production.

Though now you do have the added evil of trying to distance yourself from the hacks out there who call themselves "mastering services" because they have a copy of Blowzone and too much free time on their hands. I don't envy that part of it. ;)

G.
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Add that distribution has now been democratized over the Internet and in a few posts we've pretty much described the state of the audio industry.

Is it good or bad? I guess some of both.
 
Wow there's great ME's literally shaking E-Sticks at you as they give outstanding free advice, but still some of you are trashing them for it, thats some haterism, and i hate the word hater..lmao.

anyways I just happen to have been researching the best prices on.....oh how do I say this..... Real "professional" mastering engineers. . . What does that mean to you? ......Well I mean mastering engineers who not only have worked with serious clients and have serious gear, but also have enough passion AND experience for mastering your project. Ex. If Im mastering 2 Jay Z songs and a Jonas brother single on a deadline I may cookie cutter the hell out of your hard worked project (half ass it) or throw it to an unpaid intern with no experience, despite the fact you will pay exactly the same you recieve MUCH inferior/biased services. It Happens

You should also be able to get references of their past and more recent work, talk to people they work with, be in good communication and depnding on the terms interactive feedback......It's going to cost you, you know it. definetly not less than a C-note per track and thats pretty "budget" more like 2, 2 and a half....

Conclusion Massive Mastering offers outstanding prices for his services, not only that he helps bigtime with pretty important questions all the time, you can look through his posts and see he's great at what he does just by the consistency of his good advice..... Something tells me the other mastering engineers offering services in this thread (and others) are also plenty dedicated and qualified, I dont mean to show preference I just happened to have looked at his website a few times and am impressed with his work.

So far the "Best" online mastering engineer services ive seen are coming from members of mastering / mixing / recording / gear forums. (yes the rival ones too, please don't ban me...) Its a good system because if they suck and openly advertise charging people 200 bucks to master a track, they're gunna get called on it pretty damn quick by other audiophiles.
 
Our last project went through Peerless Mastering in Boston...I'm not sure of their client base but they did a really fantastic job and were affordable.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
As far as one person doing it all, I agree with Tom W. Just for example, I consider myself a pretty decent mix engineer/project producer, but I would never call myself a mastering engineer. I have heard stuff done by *pupils* of Tom Volpicelli - student mastering engineers only - that would put my skillz in mastering to shame. Just imagine what Tom V. himself could do. I'll stick to mixing, thank you very much.
G.
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Just remembering a Tom Volpicelli thread:
Critical and analytical listening

When things started to be really good - mastering comparisions (still there- http://www.masteringhouse.com/demos/hrforum/ )only 2 or 3 posts comments and opinions...:(

Great thread.

Ciro
 
CIRO said:
Just remembering a Tom Volpicelli thread:
Critical and analytical listening

When things started to be really good - mastering comparisions (still there- http://www.masteringhouse.com/demos/hrforum/ )only 2 or 3 posts comments and opinions...:(

Great thread.

Ciro
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Yep, that's just what I was referring to. I am happy to hear that at least one of Tom's students have moved on to professional success in NYC, which I'd bet is not an easy place to crack into.

It certainly opened my eyes (wider than they already were) to just what a *real* mastering engineer could do with flawed mix, versus those hacks out there that just maul the mix with a MBC or some brand of "-izer" to make everything louder.

I have to admit I also worry that it's just another nail in the coffin of the mixing engineer, because, frankly, most of the things those student MEs did were things that they shouldn't have HAD to do, because they should have never been in the mix handed over to them to begin with.

But I guess as long as we live in the current world where newbs are in such a freakin' hurry that they refuse to learn how to mix before they actually unleash a mix on the innocent public, that it's better to have folks like Tom and John (and Brad and Tom and their students and any of the rest of the real mastering engineers out there)) to help make things right than it is not to.

G.
 
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