C
cyanbeat
New member
I listen to progressive house music, and I'm always amazed at how human producers can make their beats sound. Any tips on avoiding mechanical sounding beats?
B
Backspacez
New member
Play drums on a drum pad or some kind of MIDI interface instead of using a step sequencer.
C
cyanbeat
New member
I use Ableton's drum kit with a midi loop function. I'm wondering more from the perspective of other EDM producers as I imagine they wouldn't be using drum pads (not that it's a bad idea though). I guess it's all about elaborate high hats and cymbals to make it funky.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Start with a good drum program....like Superior Drummer (there are others)....and a lot of the "humanize" options are already there, which will get the main Kick/Snare/Hat tracks going in the right direction. If you are doing it all beat-by-beat, then randomize your velocities and don't quantize...make the timing random too.
Then after that it's all about the fills...how well you do them can make a big difference between robot and human sounding.
Then after that it's all about the fills...how well you do them can make a big difference between robot and human sounding.
witzendoz
Senior Member
It all to do with the human feel, it's how far off the beat the hits happen.
For example the snare, kick, hats, etc don't all hit on the exact same time, there is a small error between them, you have to program in the error to make it sound human. Another example is make up a hat pattern that every hat is slightly forward or behind the beat, make it random for say 4 bars then loop the 4 bars.
Alan.
For example the snare, kick, hats, etc don't all hit on the exact same time, there is a small error between them, you have to program in the error to make it sound human. Another example is make up a hat pattern that every hat is slightly forward or behind the beat, make it random for say 4 bars then loop the 4 bars.
Alan.
Farview
Well-known member
I would do the opposite. I would make the hat right on the beat and put the kick and snare ahead of or behind it for the groove.
It is also important to not have all the hat hits the same velocity. Make sure you accent the groove.
It is also important to not have all the hat hits the same velocity. Make sure you accent the groove.
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JimmyS1969
MOODerator
I would completely agree here. Depending on what drives the tune, kick or snare slightly after the beat, can really simulate a natural feel. Mind you, this is an amount that is difficult to even hear. The HH is definitely helped, by varying velocity. Sometimes it is good to vary the timing a bit too, but more-so the kick and snare. Again, we are talking very little here.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I like to have all three elements vary a bit around the beat, but like Jimmy said, the amount that they are off the beat is almost inperceptible....it's just the feel, since no human drummer can ever hit anything on the beat through the entire song. I don't really focus on making the kick or snare specifically ahead or behind the groove....I just go for some randomness around the beat.
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
The human factor, in itself, is the fact that a 'groove', or whatever the hell you wish to call it, is not being late or early. It is just a human 'feel', which does not necessarily mean anything is inconsistent. Believe me, as a drummer myself, I try to do the opposite of what we are talking about here. BUT, that real feeling, of an almost perfect performance, is part of what gives the human element. Not only does a drum program not have, in itself, the ability to stray from the song in a natural way, but there is also the fact that it cannot hit a snare, a few mm's off the target. This is where it becomes the most obvious. No drum/cymbal/HH hit, will ever sound exactly the same, when hit by a real person. This is where a well responsive drum VST comes in to play. It will vary the sound, to a degree, by the changes in the velocity sent to it. It is in your hands, to vary that in any drum software. The 'Humanize' thing, can work a bit, but it is never (IME) perfect, by any means. That is the problem with software, it cant predict a feel. Perfection is what computers do. We try to randomly spread the perfection, so that it sounds like a real person. Constant HH and ride notes, will also make a programmed track sound sterile.
Farview
Well-known member
I don't really think that a good groove has any actual 'randomness' to it. It's the placement of the hits around the time that makes it groove, but it has to be consistent, otherwise it doesn't groove.
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Agreed, but we are talking about 'faking' a real drummer here. No software drum program, can get it. We can only hope to make it 'feel', by making the hits, seem less consistent, in the appropriate way. Whatever the hell that is....
We are on the same page...
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I've analyzed the drum hits of real drummers on a few occasions in the DAW....looking at where their hits are falling relative to the perfect on-beat hits....and while there may be an overall groove to the song, there's still quite a bit of randomness to where the drummer's hits are falling. Some fall behind, some fall ahead, some fall on the beat.
From what I've seen in Superior Drummer....the "Humanize" options do extremely well to mimic that, and when combined with other instruments, it does "groove".
Of course, once you get the drum track worked out with your drum program....the fact that subsequent instruments/players follow the sequenced drums, but also lay down their own feel....adds to the groove, no different than playing in-and-around a click track (which is perfect time).
So I think you can still get a "groove" with sequences drums...and one that has quite a bit of human feel to it, so much so, that if done well, will sound good with most songs and styles.
From what I've seen in Superior Drummer....the "Humanize" options do extremely well to mimic that, and when combined with other instruments, it does "groove".
Of course, once you get the drum track worked out with your drum program....the fact that subsequent instruments/players follow the sequenced drums, but also lay down their own feel....adds to the groove, no different than playing in-and-around a click track (which is perfect time).
So I think you can still get a "groove" with sequences drums...and one that has quite a bit of human feel to it, so much so, that if done well, will sound good with most songs and styles.
witzendoz
Senior Member
I was using it as an example, in fact I don't have anything exactly on the beat, like suggested by miroslav, Like a drummer playing to a click track would sound like.
The hi hat example was the fact that in a real feel, the hi hat would not hit the beat exactly on for every 16th hit in a 4 bar groove, maybe the 1st hit would be on the 1, but the rest would never be exactly on, which is why I would write a 4 bar pattern with varying hits and copy it.
Alan.