Made in China

muttley600 said:
Your computer and mobile phone are the products of developing economies and by extension, the product of exploitation and by extension, slavery.
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Yes, like I said earlier in this thread we all engage in slavery, and the way I feel we should do our best to avoid it. One easy way to limit this would be to buy guitar products from other companies. In such niche markets, it is much more comprehensible and easier to do so than say, the computer market. Now, it turns out Vox working conditions in China is not that bad so all good.

Also, I am not one of those who think chinese products are necessarily worse, even though a lot of chinese products are crap. In fact, vastly generalizing of course, they probably do a better job than most american or norwegian factory workers do.
 
dainbramage said:
Well, I think I just found the answer.

Grindrod [of Vox R&D UK Ltd] adds: “To put the record straight, working conditions and personnel development were very important, as well. China has its reputation, but it also has a very good and advanced side. We could have gone elsewhere and made a cheaper product, but it would not have been the same and I certainly would not have felt good about it…”

50 Years of Vox | Vintage Guitar® magazine
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Cool. Now check your computer, phone, TV, etc.
 
muttley600 said:
More likely they would sack their ass's and employ some more people. One thing you have to understand is that in the developing economies their trump catd is cheap labour.

Seriously it makes me puke every time I hear people bang about this. Who the fuck are you to deprive people anywhere from wanting to work hard and better themselves. I have met them and discussed it in quite a few countries. Have you?
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No need to get all angry about it. Relax. You miss the point entirely. I never once wrote that the workers should demand better conditions. Of course they should keep their jobs and would risk getting fired if they demanded anything at all.

Now, read again and see what I wrote: What I wrote is that we, the consumers, can demand better conditions for the workers. Sacking people wouldn't help at all.
 
Greg_L said:
I agree. The whole "Made in USA" boast is crap. All "Made in USA" means is that it's too expensive because it's made by a way overpaid unionized dropout that isn't any smarter than a retarded chinese kid in a sweat-shop.
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We got rid of all them wasters in the 70's. Now we are good at making high end stuff better than anyone. As soon as demand for high end stuff increases our economy is saved. Until then we cloth ourselves with Vietnamese cloths, eat South American fruits, build our houses with Indian concrete, communicate with Asian electronic goods and fuel our lives with Russian and Arab oil.... Cant have everything I suppose..;)
 
dainbramage said:
Yes, like I said earlier in this thread we all engage in slavery, and the way I feel we should do our best to avoid it. One easy way to limit this would be to buy guitar products from other companies. In such niche markets, it is much more comprehensible and easier to do so than say, the computer market. Now, it turns out Vox working conditions in China is not that bad so all good.

Also, I am not one of those who think chinese products are necessarily worse, even though a lot of chinese products are crap. In fact, vastly generalizing of course, they probably do a better job than most american or norwegian factory workers do.
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Great.... Now buy one of my guitars. I can personally promise you that no unfortunate people were exploited or harmed during it's construction.....
 
"Demanding better conditions for the workers" is a nice lefty bumper sticker slogan, but the reality is that the vast overwhelming majority of consumers just want stuff cheaper.
 
dainbramage said:
No need to get all angry about it. Relax. You miss the point entirely. I never once wrote that the workers should demand better conditions. Of course they should keep their jobs and would risk getting fired if they demanded anything at all.

Now, read again and see what I wrote: What I wrote is that we, the consumers, can demand better conditions for the workers. Sacking people wouldn't help at all.
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No i didn't miss your point. You are completely missing the point. Go through everything you own and keep only those things that are made by reliable, cosy developed world companies in their native countries. Then tell us what you have left.

Or you can do as I suggest and stop bitching about it and find a way to change what you see as an unnecessary evil. Start by leaving your room and visiting these places and then we are on the same page. Until then you aint even in the same bookstore.
 
Greg_L said:
I did. So you're only against "slavery" when the fix is as simple as just buying a different amp. Got it. :drunk:
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From what you write here, in your world it seems everything has to be either-if, black-white etc. And yes, if the fix is that simple, why not? By your logic, just because you make an ethical choice one day, that means you can never lie again (we all will). Or your logic in reverse: Just because you cut some wood for building a house or whatever, that doesn't mean you have to rid the world of trees.
 
I know this is a touchy subject and can get uncomfortable for some people. They get embarrased or offended, moving on to childish behavior saying others are "dumb" etc. Grow up.
 
dainbramage said:
From what you write here, in your world it seems everything has to be either-if, black-white etc. And yes, if the fix is that simple, why not? By your logic, just because you make an ethical choice one day, that means you can never lie again (we all will). Or your logic in reverse: Just because you cut some wood for building a house or whatever, that doesn't mean you have to rid the world of trees.
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WTF are you babbling on about now.

Buy one of my guitars NOW....No one got hurt making it and I promise to pay me well as a result of your purchase and have Sunday off every week. Everybody wins...
 
dainbramage said:
I know this is a touchy subject and can get uncomfortable for some people. They get embarrased or offended, moving on to childish behavior saying others are "dumb" etc. Grow up.
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It's not a touchy subject it's just that round here people have a habit of piling on dumb people. Embarrassed has double "s" BTW..
 
dainbramage said:
From what you write here, in your world it seems everything has to be either-if, black-white etc. And yes, if the fix is that simple, why not? By your logic, just because you make an ethical choice one day, that means you can never lie again (we all will). Or your logic in reverse: Just because you cut some wood for building a house or whatever, that doesn't mean you have to rid the world of trees.
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Yup, I do believe in going full balls-out. Selectively doing the easy shit in the naive name of making a difference is weak. Who are you actually trying to make feel better? It's only yourself. And that's cool, I'm all about making myself feel good. But you're not helping anyone. You're not making a difference. You're just satisfying some weird misplaced guilt you carry inside. What do you feel guilty about? You're in norway right? That's a pretty wonderful place full of racially homogenized white people that commit no crime. Just enjoy your luck and live it up!
 
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