M-Audio Delta Cards & PCI Express (PCI-X)

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From the M-Audio website:

Apple G5 Compatibility and Delta PCI Card Upgrade program
M-Audio has been working directly with Apple to ensure that all of the company’s PCI-based products will be compatible with the PCI-X architecture introduced with the Power Mac G5.*

M-Audio has been working directly with Apple to ensure that all of the company’s PCI-based products will be compatible with the PCI-X architecture introduced with the Power Mac G5. Delta models being redesigned for G5 compatibility include Audiophile 2496, Delta 1010, Delta 44, Delta 66, and Delta 1010LT. (The critically acclaimed Revolution 7.1 consumer surround sound card is already PCI-X compatible.)

The original versions of M-Audio Delta cards operated on 5 volts as supplied by the original PCI bus standard. The newly revised cards are PCI 2.2 compliant (3.3 volts) and universally keyed, allowing compatibility with 64-bit PCI-X standards on all Power Mac G5s. On-board sensing technology will also allow the new Delta cards to be backwards compatible to work in 32-bit 5-volt PCI systems. All revised M-Audio cards will also be compatible with current and next generation Windows machines.

Availability of each redesigned model will be announced on m-audio.com. Existing Delta owners can also receive upgrades to G5 compatibility immediately.

If you purchased your Delta card on or after August 1, 2003, there is no charge to upgrade your card. For users who purchased their Delta cards prior to August 1, the following upgrade fees and shipping charges apply:

United States
$50 USD + $5 USD (UPS Ground)

Japan
$79 USD + $40 USD (FedEx International Economy)

Canada
$50 USD + $40 USD (FedEx International Economy)

Europe*
50 EUROS + $40 USD (FedEx International Economy)

*Germany and Austria also have the option of updating locally via M-Audio Germany. Visit http://www.m-audio.de/pci22.htm for more details.


*UK office is now performing these upgrades for UK and French customers. Please email support@maudio.co.uk for details.

The following cards are now being accepted for upgrades:

• Delta 1010
• Delta 1010LT
• Delta 66
• Delta 44
• Audiophile 24/96

To arrange for your upgrade, contact M-Audio via the following methods:
* by phone at (626) 633-9050 x 529
* by fax at (626) 633-9088
* by email at PCIupdate@m-audio.com

A return specialist will take all of your information, arrange for payment if necessary, and provide you with the required Return Authorization number. You will be asked to provide a copy of your dated sales receipt along with your card.

*Currently there are two models of Apple’s G5 that are incompatible with this product. Please click this link for more information
 
I dont get why they would even offer this now. A legacy interface for a legacy computer? PCI-X has been dead for a while now

*edit* All this is is m-audio patching a 2 year old bug
 
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what do you mean dead? i'll admit that i have'nt been keeping up on the latest and greatest. my 1010LT sounds like a good candidate for upgrading. thanks for the news turnitdown.

maybe we'll see a delta panel upgrade down the road?
 
The title of this thread is misleading, PCI-X is not PCI Express (pci-e) and is compatible with the normal pci cards. find one mainboard has has PCI-X on it today. There is next to nothing, everything is mix PCI/PCI-E. The problem was that there was a bug in the old G5's and M-audio pci cards did not work at all in them (despite PCI-X and PCI being backwards compatible).

All the newer g5's and Mac pro's do not have PCI-X but PCI-E expansion slots. Delta cards will not work with those no matter what

I don't think anyone made a fully "PCI-X" soundcard ever.

There are however several PCI-E soundcards out there: Pt HD, Motu Core, and IIRC RME all have PCI-E expansion cards right now. So if you want the latest and greatest look there.

I think with PCI-E 2.0, due next year, there will be more single lane interfaces available since the 2.0 spec doubles the bandwidth in the 1x card
 
My mistake then.... Sorry.
I thought PCI-x was PCI Express or whatever the "new" interface is that is going to make regular PCI Obsolete..... :confused:
 
From Wikipedia:
Confusion with PCI-Express
PCI-X is often confused with PCI-Express, commonly abbreviated PCI-E or PCIe. While they are both high-speed computer buses for internal peripherals, they differ in many ways. The first is that PCI-X is a parallel interface that is directly backward compatible with all but the oldest (5 Volt) PCI devices. PCIe is a serial bus that offers no compatibility with older buses. In the future PCI-X and PCI buses may run off a PCIe bridge, similar to the way ISA buses ran off of PCI buses in some computers. This should not be confused with compatibility. PCIe also matches PCI-X and even PCI-X 2.0 in maximum bandwidth. PCIe x1 offers 250MB/s in both directions, and currently supports up to an x16 standard at 4 GB/s. PCI-X like PCI is a half-duplex bidirectional bus.

PCI-X has a number of technological and economical disadvantages compared to PCI-Express. The 64-bit parallel interface requires inherently difficult trace routing, because as with all parallel interfaces, the signals from the bus must arrive simultaneously, or within a very short window and noise from adjacent slots may cause interference. The serial interface of PCIe suffers fewer such problems and therefore requires less complex and less expensive designs. PCI-X buses are half-duplex bidirectional whereas PCIe buses are full-duplex bidirectional. PCI-X buses run only as fast as the slowest device; PCIe devices are able to independently negotiate the bus speed.
Click to expand...
 
altitude909 said:
The title of this thread is misleading, PCI-X is not PCI Express (pci-e) and is compatible with the normal pci cards. find one mainboard has has PCI-X on it today. There is next to nothing, everything is mix PCI/PCI-E. The problem was that there was a bug in the old G5's and M-audio pci cards did not work at all in them (despite PCI-X and PCI being backwards compatible).

All the newer g5's and Mac pro's do not have PCI-X but PCI-E expansion slots. Delta cards will not work with those no matter what

I don't think anyone made a fully "PCI-X" soundcard ever.

There are however several PCI-E soundcards out there: Pt HD, Motu Core, and IIRC RME all have PCI-E expansion cards right now. So if you want the latest and greatest look there.

I think with PCI-E 2.0, due next year, there will be more single lane interfaces available since the 2.0 spec doubles the bandwidth in the 1x card
Click to expand...

My M-audio Delta 1010lt was PCI-X out of the box and has worked flawlessly in my G5 since day one. What do mean "there was a bug in the old G5s and they did not work at all in them. I beg to differ, but that is absolutely false.
 
macmoondoggie said:
My M-audio Delta 1010lt was PCI-X out of the box and has worked flawlessly in my G5 since day one. What do mean "there was a bug in the old G5s and they did not work at all in them. I beg to differ, but that is absolutely false.
Click to expand...

i think that applies to a few specific G5's.
 
From the M-Audio website:

Apple G5 Compatibility and Delta PCI Card Upgrade program
M-Audio has been working directly with Apple to ensure that all of the company’s PCI-based products will be compatible with the PCI-X architecture introduced with the Power Mac G5.*

M-Audio has been working directly with Apple to ensure that all of the company’s PCI-based products will be compatible with the PCI-X architecture introduced with the Power Mac G5. Delta models being redesigned for G5 compatibility include Audiophile 2496, Delta 1010, Delta 44, Delta 66, and Delta 1010LT. (The critically acclaimed Revolution 7.1 consumer surround sound card is already PCI-X compatible.)

The original versions of M-Audio Delta cards operated on 5 volts as supplied by the original PCI bus standard. The newly revised cards are PCI 2.2 compliant (3.3 volts) and universally keyed, allowing compatibility with 64-bit PCI-X standards on all Power Mac G5s. On-board sensing technology will also allow the new Delta cards to be backwards compatible to work in 32-bit 5-volt PCI systems. All revised M-Audio cards will also be compatible with current and next generation Windows machines.
Click to expand...

Then you were probably not one of the ppl effected then. The 1010lt is PCI, which can be used in PCI-X systems. The compatibility issue is isolated to several power mac models:

Furthermore, two specific PCI-equipped Apple G5 models have been found to be incompatible with some PCI audio interfaces, including M-Audio Delta cards:

- DUAL G5 1.8 GHz system featuring PCI slots (not PCI-X) and 4 RAM slots
- DUAL G5 2.0 GHz system featuring PCI slots (not PCI-X) and 4 RAM slots

The slightly older version of the Dual G5 1.8 GHz as well as the previous version of the Dual 2.0 GHz, which Apple advertises as “PCI-X” and not “PCI,” and which are also different from the newer model in that they have eight RAM slots instead of only four, ARE compatible and work perfectly well with M-Audio Delta Series PCI card. Please verify if you have one of these models before purchasing a PCI audio card.

Single Processor G5’s as well as Dual Processor G5’s with PCI-X and 8 RAM slots are NOT affected and work perfectly fine with M-Audio’s Delta Series of products.

M-Audio has worked closely with Apple to determine the source of this problem and it has been found to be the interaction of the host PCI controller (Apple's part named "K2") and the Delta PCI card.

The incompatibility manifests itself as noise in the signal, sample dropouts, and possibly no audio output at all.
Click to expand...
 
macmoondoggie said:
My M-audio Delta 1010lt was PCI-X out of the box and has worked flawlessly in my G5 since day one. What do mean "there was a bug in the old G5s and they did not work at all in them. I beg to differ, but that is absolutely false.
Click to expand...

Here's the scoop. Early Delta 1010LT cards were notched incorrectly. All PCI devices built in the past decade or so are dual-voltage-capable. That means they work with motherboards that do either 5v or 3.3v signaling, but they signal at 3.3v themselves, so they aren't necessarily compatible with all of the old logic boards that do 5v signaling. Most of them, but not all.

Anyway, in order to prevent cards from being used in slots that signal at the wrong voltage, the slots have a series of plastic dividers and the cards have a series of notches. If there is no notch for a divider to slide into, the card won't physically fit into the slot.

PCI-X supports 3.3v signaling cards only. These cards generally two slots (universal), though they only technically need one. The Delta 1010LT card was incorrectly notched with the 5v notch to indicate that it uses 5v signaling. It doesn't, of course, and AFAIK, it never did, but the result of the notching error was that the older versions of the Delta 1010LT wouldn't go into the slots on the PCI-X G5s.

The 1010LT I used to have was one that M-Audio had "upgraded". As best I can tell, the upgrade involved using a Dremel or similar to cut a new slot in the board. :D

(I have no idea why some of the PCI versions of the G5 are described as incompatible....)
 
The 1010LT I used to have was one that M-Audio had "upgraded". As best I can tell, the upgrade involved using a Dremel or similar to cut a new slot in the board.
Click to expand...

Hehe.

Nice, I bet thats $50 plus shipping
 
altitude909 said:
Hehe.

Nice, I bet thats $50 plus shipping
Click to expand...

I think it was something like $35 including one-way shipping, but I could be remembering wrong. Either way, I was sorely tempted to Dremel it myself. :D
 
Old thread, new question

It has been suggested that blue coloured REV-C cards that have only one locating notch might be simply adapted to PCI 2.2 (3.3v signalling) by simply making another notch where pins 12 & 13 currently are.

What we don't have is a definitive answer as to whether this is in fact what M Audio did in order to "upgrade" the REV-C cards or whether it works or not.

Does anybody have a definitive answer?

Has anybody actually DONE this?

Reason for my question.........

I have a working 1010 with REV-C card and only one notch. I have aquired/built a computer that has PCI Express and PCI-X slots........

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.................!
 
acoustifan said:
It has been suggested that blue coloured REV-C cards that have only one locating notch might be simply adapted to PCI 2.2 (3.3v signalling) by simply making another notch where pins 12 & 13 currently are.

What we don't have is a definitive answer as to whether this is in fact what M Audio did in order to "upgrade" the REV-C cards or whether it works or not.

Does anybody have a definitive answer?
Click to expand...

Definitive answer? No. You'd pretty much have to find somebody at M-Audio to answer that. (Incidentally, my earlier comment was about the 1010LT, which is an entirely different animal.)

That said, at this point, given that PCI-X slots are relatively rare in new motherboards, your next machine (statistically) won't have any compatible slots no matter what you do (short of buying a $1500 expansion chassis). Thus, IMO it would be a waste of time and money to bother upgrading an old 1010 to work with a slightly less out-of-date slot architecture.

My advice? Sell it on eBay for a hundred bucks while you can still get that much (yes, they're really selling for only about a hundred bucks these days) and put that money towards something external (USB or FireWire) so that you can use it with any machine you'll likely be able to buy for the foreseeable future.
 
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