Lyrics are not poetry

[Lairry]

A key thing I learned is that lyrics aren't just about the words themselves, but their cohesion with the song as a whole.

Factors include:

• The delivery and how they flow to the instrumentals.
• Do the suits the vocalist's voice and vocal range?
• What emotion are you conveying in your voice when you deliver them? Are you doing it convincingly? Does it have conviction?
• Are these lyrics words the vocalist would say? If a vocalist's friends were in the room with them listening to the song, would the vocalist affirm "yes, I meant that" or feel a bit bashful?
• Vowel sounds. Sometimes it's worth changing words - not because the new words are better - but because when the vocalist holds notes. Maybe an "ooo" sounds better than an "aaa", in context of the instrumental.

Making lyrics that fit the song sometimes means using less words or simpler words. It sometimes means cutting out a very clever and brilliant phrase. Ironically, I've found that my best lyrics have come when I wasn't trying to be the best lyricist ; but just trying to what was needed for the song.

This is why there have been great songs with lyrics that may seem unimpressive if you were to look at a lyric sheet in isolation. This is why you can listen to a song of a foreign language, yet the vocalist still resonates with you.

When I write lyrics on a paper, they're ideas and not final. Some will be incorporated into a song; some won't.

 

[rob aylestone]

Cards on table - I never listen to words, they have no impact on me at all. If I listen to a singer doing it in a foreign language, that's fine, what matters to me is the tune and the delivery. I think about lyrics as it they were in opera - the performance and the singer. I always have to smile when you see the translated Italian on screens and the beautiful lyrics that mean nothing translate as "I went down the road and bought a cup of coffee" - well not quite, but in english, the lyrics are often rubbish. I'll take the music and the melody - lyrics are forgotten. I'm useless in quizzes when you get asked what song did these lyrics come from? Often I know the song really well, but have never consciously heard the lyrics at all. I was in a tribute band for a very long time, but I can remember my harmony lines - as in the notes I sang, but the words have gone.

 

[grimtraveller]

Lyrics are not poetry ~ but they can be.
And sometimes, they sound ever so poetic with music ~ but when isolated, the words aren't poetic at all.
And sometimes they just sound ragged.
To me, lyrics are paradoxical. They don't matter, yet they do. They often really are important to a song, and yet they're not, but the vocal is. Yet the vocal sings lyrics, most of the time.

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

Cards on table - I never listen to words, they have no impact on me at all. If I listen to a singer doing it in a foreign language, that's fine, what matters to me is the tune and the delivery. I think about lyrics as it they were in opera - the performance and the singer. I always have to smile when you see the translated Italian on screens and the beautiful lyrics that mean nothing translate as "I went down the road and bought a cup of coffee" - well not quite, but in english, the lyrics are often rubbish. I'll take the music and the melody - lyrics are forgotten. I'm useless in quizzes when you get asked what song did these lyrics come from? Often I know the song really well, but have never consciously heard the lyrics at all. I was in a tribute band for a very long time, but I can remember my harmony lines - as in the notes I sang, but the words have gone.

You and I have this in common. There are some lyrics that I do dig.... and some songs whose meaning is important or relevant - or speaks to me. But mostly... I don't pay attention to what is being said.... more how it's being said.

 

[60's guy]

Cards on table - I never listen to words, they have no impact on me at all.

That's kinda sad, but to each his own the saying goes. During the latter of the 50s and early 60s there were many love songs (lyrics) sung to the simple C Am F G chord progression that was popular at the time. It was the lyrics and lyrical melody that made the songs popular.....individually.

Lyrics made The Beatles famous.

 

[TalismanRich]

Cards on table - I never listen to words, they have no impact on me at all. If I listen to a singer doing it in a foreign language, that's fine, what matters to me is the tune and the delivery. I think about lyrics as it they were in opera - the performance and the singer. I always have to smile when you see the translated Italian on screens and the beautiful lyrics that mean nothing translate as "I went down the road and bought a cup of coffee" - well not quite, but in english, the lyrics are often rubbish. I'll take the music and the melody - lyrics are forgotten. I'm useless in quizzes when you get asked what song did these lyrics come from? Often I know the song really well, but have never consciously heard the lyrics at all. I was in a tribute band for a very long time, but I can remember my harmony lines - as in the notes I sang, but the words have gone.

I'm completely at the opposite side of that spectrum. I listen to the vocals, listening to the lyrics as well as the music. I've got a soft spot for story songs like those of Harry Chapin. They are musical portraits. Songs like Sniper, Better Place to Be, WOLD, Taxi and I Want To Learn A Love Song are all songs about people. They aren't the typical party songs, or dance music.

Jim Croce did some of the same although most of his songs are from a more personal viewpoint. Photographs and memories, Operator, New York's Not My Home and Lovers Cross are reflections on personal feeling and situations telling a story about that slice in time.

There are tons of other writers who do the same, Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, James Taylor. It's a very common technique in country music. Songs like Ruby by Kenny Rogers or Ode to Billie Joe, Coal Miners Daughter. They are all stories set to music.

As for lyrics not being poetry, it's true that they don't need to be, but most often are. This is every bit as much poetry to me as most of ee cummings' work.

April, come she will
When streams are ripe and swelled with rain
May, she will stay
Resting in my arms again

June, she’ll change her tune
In restless walks, she’ll prowl the night
July, she will fly
And give no warning to her flight

August, die she must
The autumn winds blow chilly and cold
September, I’ll remember
A love once new has now grown old

 

[gecko zzed]

I recall a discussion along these lines happening a while ago. Maybe a long while ago.

On music I listen to, I don't really care about the words so long as the sound of the words is in keeping with nature of the music. However, the lyrics will intrude on my consciousness if they are corny, cringey or a collection of cliches.

On music I write, I spend a lot of time on lyrics to avoid the above, even if I expect people won't listen to them.

I am in favour of simple words and phrases, but not stock phrases.

 

[grimtraveller]

On music I listen to, I don't really care about the words so long as the sound of the words is in keeping with nature of the music. However, the lyrics will intrude on my consciousness if they are corny, cringey or a collection of cliches.

On music I write, I spend a lot of time on lyrics to avoid the above, even if I expect people won't listen to them.

I am in favour of simple words and phrases, but not stock phrases.

So really, you do care about the words. Just not consciously or beforehand.

I never listen to words, they have no impact on me at all

That's kinda sad

I don't think it's sad. I'd say that was normal for a huge percentage of people that have listened to music for the last 70 years. Much of the time, one would know the chorus of a song {the hook}, but no other parts. But almost every lyric is much more than the part that turns up in the hook/chorus.
In a way, that's how and why there has often been so much misinterpretation of songs.

It was the lyrics and lyrical melody that made the songs popular.....individually

That's true, but it was also the sometimes asinine lyrics of songs of that period that gave rise to the more serious-edged lyrics that artists like Dylan popularized.

Lyrics made The Beatles famous.

Well......
Kinda. Up to a point. From "Rubber Soul" onwards.
I would actually say that their actual lyrics were among the last aspect of the band that they got famous with. Their overall music {chords, structures}, their look, their hair, their humour, their composing, their attitude, their group dynamic, yet individual flavour {after all, they were John, Paul, George and Ringo - they weren't the first group, but which other group was thought of like that prior ?} ~ these were the things that brought them fame initially.
Lyrically, they were thought of as either a bit corny, a bit facile, girly {that is, aimed at teenage girls} or appealing across the board {kids, parents} popularist. A great lyric like that of "She loves you" is remembered for the chorus alone, not for what it actually says {which is pretty groundbreaking}. Nobody commented, back in the day, on the depth of lyrics like "I call your name."
It is very interesting that Dylan, when he first heard the Beatles, thought they were lyrically deep because he thought they were singing about drugs in "I want to hold your hand." When he learned they weren't singing "I get high" but were actually singing "I can't hide," he re-examined their lyrics and didn't think much of them. He thought the music revolutionary but, lyrically, lame. It was he that encouraged them to write about their lives, their selves, the inner being {after turning them onto marijuana} and "Beatles For sale" saw the first fruits of that.
His reaction when Paul McCartney played him Sergeant Pepper is noteworthy ~ he said something like "I see you guys don't want to be cute, no more...."

 

[dogooder]

I stated this in another thread. Lyrics are like women and paintings, the closer you get, the rougher they look. Don't forget you are your own worst critic.

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

A key thing I learned is that lyrics aren't just about the words themselves, but their cohesion with the song as a whole.

Factors include:

• The delivery and how they flow to the instrumentals.
• Do the suits the vocalist's voice and vocal range?
• What emotion are you conveying in your voice when you deliver them? Are you doing it convincingly? Does it have conviction?
• Are these lyrics words the vocalist would say? If a vocalist's friends were in the room with them listening to the song, would the vocalist affirm "yes, I meant that" or feel a bit bashful?
• Vowel sounds. Sometimes it's worth changing words - not because the new words are better - but because when the vocalist holds notes. Maybe an "ooo" sounds better than an "aaa", in context of the instrumental.

Making lyrics that fit the song sometimes means using less words or simpler words. It sometimes means cutting out a very clever and brilliant phrase. Ironically, I've found that my best lyrics have come when I wasn't trying to be the best lyricist ; but just trying to what was needed for the song.

This is why there have been great songs with lyrics that may seem unimpressive if you were to look at a lyric sheet in isolation. This is why you can listen to a song of a foreign language, yet the vocalist still resonates with you.

When I write lyrics on a paper, they're ideas and not final. Some will be incorporated into a song; some won't.

I dunno, I'm a little skeptical about lists like this. IMHO whether it's poetry or song lyrics or both, I feel the fewer rules the better. As a true art form, I think many of the highly influential writers would say something like, "the first rule is that there are no rules." Notice I said influential and not necessarily the most rich, awarded, or well-known in their lifetimes although some are.

When I was in high school I took art all four years, visual art that led to painting. My art teacher really pushed the no rules aspect of visual media and really art in general. So when I see a list that says to change "ooo" sounds to "aaa", I think hmm, have I ever in my life even written a song that contains a held note word ending in ooo or aaa? And if I did, would the context of the sentence or message I am trying to communicate change by altering that word? For some songwriters, words have meaning and for many of those folks, every individual word has its place and altering an idea for the sake of following some arbitrary rule doesn't sound like art to me. I think it sounds more like marketing or at the very least, selling out your art and the meaning behind your songs for the sake of pleasing some focus group or being the most popular kid on the block. Well I guess one instance it would work is changing poo poo to caa caa. But then again, caca is Spanish, so we might break another rule by using a word from different language.

 

[RFR]

Hmm. Mixed bag for me. A lot of songs I couldn’t tell you what the lyrics are or what they mean, or what message they convey.
A lot of classic rock songs when I have to learn the lyrics it wipes away my appreciation of the song because of how stupid the lyrics are.

Had I never delved into the lyric, I’d still like the song.

And then there are artists who’s lyrics are brilliant and an integral part of what makes the song great. The lyrics can tell a powerful story.

Two such artists come to mind that fit that

Earlier Jackson Browne and Tom Petty.

 

[DM60]

I would say, in this context, good lyrics and good instrumentation becomes the balance. I really like good lyrics with a good melody. Some of my favorites are Paul Simon, Rodger Hodges, Chris Rea, Bernie and Elton had a good run, lots of one hit wonders.

For me, the lyrics, whether poetry or not, in context of music, has to have both complement each other. I really think a good sound can make the lyrics more powerful.

 

[TAE]

To each his own on if you listen to or care about the words / lyrics to songs.
I think more do than don't but I do know folks that don't give a rats ass about them. As a songwriter and lyricist it kind of shocks me.
Growing up in the late 50's and as an adolescent of the 60's with 3 older sisters blasting the AM and singing along I knew the songs and the words to a lot of songs.
I liked a lot of them. The purple eyed people eater, Summer place ( do love the instrumental too!), I don't wanna say goodbye for the summer. I love you, I love you said the little blue man, Born free, Blueberry Hill, Dead mans Curve, She loves you yeah yeah yeah, ..no words... no song...As a teen Dylan, the Beatles, King Crimson, The Doors, Pink Floyd, Glen Campbell, Cat Stevens, Joe Walsh, Jim Croce.....I could go on and on...
There are plenty of instrumentals that I like but I absolutely love good lyrics lines and good singers.
With regards to the OP opine that lyrics aren't poems...sometimes they are sometimes they aren't
IMO most are. Definitely most of the Pop tunes rhyme. Music is awesome and emotes heart tugging feelings on it's own with the vibrations but the lyrics bring a story to the music. Think silent films ( which had music but no human voices to tell the story ) note silent movies are pretty much extinct and instrumentals are far and few between.

The Beatles wrote almost 200 songs together.....every song they wrote has lyrics to it even the only one that is considered an "instrumental" Flying from the magical mystery tour...

I like this version and the only lyrics / singing is the La la la la la and Ah .... Would it have ever made the charts? Other than being used in the movie it definitely is almost never played on the radio and equally never covered by bands...but it is VERY cool...and these boys do it better than the Beatles version.



Court of the Crimson King is a masterpiece of music and lyrics that carry each other and the instrumental parts are so cool..

Oh well nuff said. The relationship of music and lyrics is like meat and potatoes...Ok alone but so much better together.

 

[TAE]

I really think a good sound can make the lyrics more powerful.

100% true and vice versa

 

[Chili]

Funny, my wife is a non-native english speaker. When we first met, eons ago, she knew very little english. When she was growing up, she used to listen to all the great rock from the US and UK. Pink Floyd, Ozzie, Scorpions (ouch!!), metallica, etc. She never knew what they were saying and would fill in with her own words. Now, she'll hear a song and realize what the lyrics were and will be like, Ohhhhhh.

I personally don't care what is written either, just like most you guys, I like to hear how they are performed. Do they match the prosody? Any fun word-play? Catchy hooks? Strong delivery? something to catch my attention, then I'll go back and listen to the words.

When I write a song, I'll put the time into the words. Not that I care, but there are people out there, like Talisman Rich, who do. So, I want to give those people a reason to like my song.

 

[RFR]

This song would be nothing without the lyrics

 

[markmann]

I know more people that care about lyrics than not. They want to hear a story or some sort of message. I personally would rather hear something meaningful than some BS lyrics but not a deal breaker unless the lyrics offend me.

 

[TAE]

Lyrics Pfffft! Written by a 17 year old punk kid from Oklahoma...WTF?

 

[TAE]