Loss of Volume/space in Mixdown?

TheOneTrueMatt

New member
Hi, I'm using Sonar 4 PE and am working on a project and I had a really good mix going, loud enough w/o clipping, everything balanced, lots of space, but when I export it to a .wav file, it seems to get much quieter (on the same computer, same monitors, playing back the .wav) and generally "smaller" sounding. Is this a normal occurance from summation to a stereo file, or do I have something set wrong? Or is this just where Mastering comes in for making the file loud enough, etc?
 
too quiet??
turn up your speakers




i'm sure other people will chime in soon, but loud doesn't necessarily mean better. if it's too quiet, turn your speakers up...how does the mix sound? does it still sound the same? If you can hear a change in your mix when turning the volume from soft to loud...then you're mix is not done. One sign of a good mix is if it sounds coherent at all volumes. Also, make sure you have a master fader/main fader on your session showing your levels. Many people just watch the individual track levels but never watch the stereo bus to see how the final levels are looking.
 
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Also, are you using the same soundcard and or output bus? I have my onboard sound and soundcard outs going to the same speakers. When I mix in Cubase through the soundcard, the result is often much louder than the onboard, which is what I'll playback mixes thru most of the time.
 
there are only 3 things that could be occuring here, and 1 has already been mentioned (volume). Another good bet is that you are listening in a different program, which might color the sound (but I'm not a programmer so i dont know if all programs use the same built-in windows functions or not). The next most likely is that the more times you hear one song in one sitting, the less "amazing" it gets.
 
Ok, one thing I can rule out is hearin the same thing X times in a session, 'cause this was a direct "Here's how my mix sounds" then "Yikes, that's how it sounds as a .wav" immediately one after the other, direct comparison. And it wasn't a very long mixing session, partially because the project isn't done, this was an intermediate "Here's how it sounds so far" mix. This machine only has one soundcard, which is the one I record and monitor through (M-Audio Omni Studio) so that rules that out.

The volume issue is that I had good levels (w/the master fader, master volume nice and loud but not clipping) in Sonar, but when I played the same thing back as a .wav it was noticably quieter, monitors set to the same volume and like I said, smaller sounding, as in, didn't seem as three dimentional, kind of like it lost some midrange, but the highs and lows were still there.

I did listen to the wav in different programs, and maybe i should try loading the wav in Sonar itself and see how it sounds there, as in one wav program is sounded less good and in one it sounded like total crap (I tried winamp and WMP, are most popular music-playing programs in XP possibly just not that great at reproducing music accurately?) I'll try that next time I'm at my DAW. And it's not just that it's "too quiet" it's that it's quieter than it was when I was mixing it. This is listening to the .wav immediately after having it exported to .wav from listening to the mix in Sonar. In other words, I'm concerned w/o significant mastering the final mix will sound weak, even though I seemed to be doing a good job of getting good levels when actually mixing it. I think otherwise the mix was mostly intact, and it sounded a bit harsher but that may have just been the wav programs, so I'll definitely try openning the .wav in Sonar itself next time.

I'll try that stuff out and get back to you, thanks for the suggestions so far.
 
also (i think this might have been said)...look at your sound properties in Windows' control panel to make sure it's Volume is turned up

try on a different sound system.
 
yeah I thought I heard the same thing you did until I loaded it back into the software and flipped the phase and heard absolutely nothing; then I was convinced the mixdown was identical and I was either "hearing things" or the software was at fault.


TheOneTrueMatt said:
In other words, I'm concerned w/o significant mastering the final mix will sound weak, even though I seemed to be doing a good job of getting good levels when actually mixing it.


this might end up being the case regardless. just a case of it sounded good when you were mixing it but not so good later. this is why you could easily spend a year mixing one cd, and its not worth it. you can't really worry about all of that. if it needs mastering it does and if it doens't it wont.
 
TheOneTrueMatt said:
Hi, I'm using Sonar 4 PE and am working on a project and I had a really good mix going, loud enough w/o clipping, everything balanced, lots of space, but when I export it to a .wav file, it seems to get much quieter (on the same computer, same monitors, playing back the .wav) and generally "smaller" sounding. Is this a normal occurance from summation to a stereo file, or do I have something set wrong? Or is this just where Mastering comes in for making the file loud enough, etc?

I might be way off here but I know Cubase does mixdowns at -3 or -6db. Sonar may do something similar...not sure, but worth checking out in your case.
 
I like these 2 idease already mentioned:
1. Check the windows audio properties control panel volume level.
2. Import the wave back into Sonar and compare rms/peak levels with the original mix.
 
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