Losing my mind with mixing down!!

J

Jaticus

New member
Hi everyone,

Im not new to recording but im not and expert either, and im in some trouble so any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Iv recently started using Adobe Aud 3, before that i was using Mixcraft3 and iv done alot of tracks over time. One thing thats always plagued me with recording is mixing down, recording is fine and im learning more all the time, but iv come to the realisation that i need help with this.

Iv got many songs written and recorded on both programmes and im ready to make a CD and start selling it, also release mp3s digitally, but the problem is format. I assume the sensible option is to burn my songs to the CD in mp3 format? Well iv been mixing down my tracks to mp3 and they're NEVER right. They always sound rubbish, which is too be expected, but theres a drastic change in the music which is unacceptable. My lastest song sounds fine in the multitrack view in AA3, but mixed down, the reverb on my vocals is too much and creates too much resonance when i listen back. Thta seems to be a problem with all my tracks, the reverb sounds great in the programmes but just goes crazy when its mixed down.

So is there any secreat here that im missing? Also what would you guys recommend i do when making my cd, should i burn them as WAVs and WMAs? And obviously and some point i'll have to produce my songs as mp3s, so how can i ensure the tracks retain they're quality?

Any help would be great.
Con


PS. Anyone using AA3, is there even a function that allows you to add album titled and composer info? Cos i sure as hell cant find a way to do it.
 
Jaticus said:
Hi everyone,

Im not new to recording but im not and expert either, and im in some trouble so any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Iv recently started using Adobe Aud 3, before that i was using Mixcraft3 and iv done alot of tracks over time. One thing thats always plagued me with recording is mixing down, recording is fine and im learning more all the time, but iv come to the realisation that i need help with this.

Iv got many songs written and recorded on both programmes and im ready to make a CD and start selling it, also release mp3s digitally, but the problem is format. I assume the sensible option is to burn my songs to the CD in mp3 format? Well iv been mixing down my tracks to mp3 and they're NEVER right. They always sound rubbish, which is too be expected, but theres a drastic change in the music which is unacceptable. My lastest song sounds fine in the multitrack view in AA3, but mixed down, the reverb on my vocals is too much and creates too much resonance when i listen back. Thta seems to be a problem with all my tracks, the reverb sounds great in the programmes but just goes crazy when its mixed down.

So is there any secreat here that im missing? Also what would you guys recommend i do when making my cd, should i burn them as WAVs and WMAs? And obviously and some point i'll have to produce my songs as mp3s, so how can i ensure the tracks retain they're quality?

Any help would be great.
Con


PS. Anyone using AA3, is there even a function that allows you to add album titled and composer info? Cos i sure as hell cant find a way to do it.
Click to expand...

Why are you bouncing to mp3? You should only need mp3 for web posting!!
Bounce to wav...burn cd's as wav's..that's what a typical commercial cd is..wav...also when you convert your wav. to mp3 for the web, make sure you are converting at a good rate!!!
 
Jaticus said:
One thing thats always plagued me with recording is mixing down, recording is fine and im learning more all the time, but iv come to the realisation that i need help with this.

Iv got many songs written and recorded on both programmes and im ready to make a CD and start selling it, also release mp3s digitally, but the problem is format. I assume the sensible option is to burn my songs to the CD in mp3 format?
Click to expand...
Not really.

First off, one does not mix down to a format...at least not directly. One creates the mixdown in the software, getting the mix to sound right - or at least the way we want it to sound. That's step one. At this point there *is* no "format" because you haven't actually saved any permanent files yet. It's all just being done in the software.

Step 2, then, is to save a master copy of your mix. NOTE that this does not mean "making a master" or "mastering", this just means saving a pristine copy of your mix as a safety archive copy so you don't lose it or mess it up later.The format you want to choose for saving this master copy will be stereo WAV, at whatever sample rate and word length your AA3 project is working in (e.g. 24bit/44.1kHz).

Step 3, after you have done this with each of the songs you want to put on your CD, then it's time to master them together into an album to put onto CD. When you burn the CD, you burn it as an audio CD, not as a data CD. Depending upon what you are using for mastering/burning software, you may first have to dither your 24-bit files to 16-bit/44.1kHz (the format used on audio CDs), or the software will do so automatically for you, as long as you select audio CD as your burning option. (Technically, an audio CD contains CDA files, but there are basically just WAV files with special header info for the CD player included. Don't worry about that too much though, this part of the formatting will automatically be handled by your burning software.)

Now you have a compatable CD that contains 16-bit/44.1kHz audio files like every other standard audio CD.

As far as the MP3s for Internet distribution go, you want those to be separate copies of your music altogether. Best course here is to go back to your archive master WAV files and make MP3 copies of those. Leave the original WAVs intact, just save the MP3 versions as new files.

As far as your reverb and the quality of your MP3s: first, listen to your reverb in the mix *before* you save the mix. The reverb may sound fine in the individual tracks, but when you put them together it can sound awful.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Not really.

First off, one does not mix down to a format...at least not directly. One creates the mixdown in the software, getting the mix to sound right - or at least the way we want it to sound. That's step one. At this point there *is* no "format" because you haven't actually saved any permanent files yet. It's all just being done in the software.

Step 2, then, is to save a master copy of your mix. NOTE that this does not mean "making a master" or "mastering", this just means saving a pristine copy of your mix as a safety archive copy so you don't lose it or mess it up later.The format you want to choose for saving this master copy will be stereo WAV, at whatever sample rate and word length your AA3 project is working in (e.g. 24bit/44.1kHz).

Step 3, after you have done this with each of the songs you want to put on your CD, then it's time to master them together into an album to put onto CD. When you burn the CD, you burn it as an audio CD, not as a data CD. Depending upon what you are using for mastering/burning software, you may first have to dither your 24-bit files to 16-bit/44.1kHz (the format used on audio CDs), or the software will do so automatically for you, as long as you select audio CD as your burning option. (Technically, an audio CD contains CDA files, but there are basically just WAV files with special header info for the CD player included. Don't worry about that too much though, this part of the formatting will automatically be handled by your burning software.)

Now you have a compatable CD that contains 16-bit/44.1kHz audio files like every other standard audio CD.

As far as the MP3s for Internet distribution go, you want those to be separate copies of your music altogether. Best course here is to go back to your archive master WAV files and make MP3 copies of those. Leave the original WAVs intact, just save the MP3 versions as new files.

As far as your reverb and the quality of your MP3s: first, listen to your reverb in the mix *before* you save the mix. The reverb may sound fine in the individual tracks, but when you put them together it can sound awful.

G.
Click to expand...

+1...well said:)
 
As usual, great advice from Glen. This seems to be another problem, though:
Jaticus said:
but mixed down, the reverb on my vocals is too much and creates too much resonance when i listen back. Thta seems to be a problem with all my tracks, the reverb sounds great in the programmes but just goes crazy when its mixed down.
Click to expand...
 
RAMI said:
As usual, great advice from Glen. This seems to be another problem, though:
Click to expand...
Well, this is why I said what I did in the last paragraph. I'm not sure, I could be wrong, but I get the impression based upon his description that there's not a whole lot of actual mixing going on, that he's working the individual tracks to sound good, but that he's not actually working the mix much until he plays back the burned file.

There's also the possibility that maybe the MP3 encoder in AA3 (I've not used that version so I don't know) may have trouble going directly from 24-bit to MP3. I've seen similar things before. He might have to dither down to 16-bit first, perhaps.

G.
 
Jaticus, are you rapping over beats, or do you program your own beats????
 
Great advice Glen, i think i understand now how to burn and how to save my work, thanks alot, im going to start putting my cd together asap.

Yes that verb problem seems to be still hanging around, even in PCM best quality, the reverb adopts a kind of resonant annoying hall like quality, perhaps just trying another setting/model in the programme is appropriate.


Also yes Glen your right, im doing every individual up, sorry for the lack of info.
 
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RAMI said:
As usual, great advice from Glen. This seems to be another problem, though:
Click to expand...

Jaticus said:
but mixed down, the reverb on my vocals is too much and creates too much resonance when i listen back. Thta seems to be a problem with all my tracks, the reverb sounds great in the programmes but just goes crazy when its mixed down.
Click to expand...
I was wondering about that too. If the balance doesn't shift bouncing to 24/44k (or 16/44k for that mater) two places you might look to is how the conversion to MP3 is changing it or, is there compression or limiting going on the final that is raising the relative levels of stuff that used to be tucked back in the mix?
 
OK, so I was wrong about the rap. :D :D :D

That sounds pretty good. The vocals don't sound bad to me, maybe a little sibilent. If anything, I'd say the drums are really hard to make out. But overall, I don't hear a reverb problem on the voice.
 
sibilent? Yeh heheh thats probobly the furthest away from rap you can get :D

Thanks for the advice about the drums, in retrospec i agree they are too faint. Its interesting you dont pick up the reverb problem, mabey my speakers are playing up, also i dont suppose it would make a huge amount of difference what media player im using would it?
 
Seems slightly wet but not out of bounds for a style'. I could see drier working also.
So is the issue that the verb/ambiance stuff is different from the live playback from the program to the export - and are you comparing them on and in the same playback chain- (that's a biggie and changes the whole question around.
 
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Jaticus said:
Im not sure what you mean by the same play back chain.
Click to expand...
The theory would be if you are not doing anything different to make the export sound different they should be the same. Thus wondering maybe you listen/mix one place/speaker -whatever, then check the song somewhere else.
 
Jaticus said:
sibilent? Yeh heheh thats probobly the furthest away from rap you can get :D
Click to expand...

Well, "sibilant" (which I'm not even sure I'm spelling correctly) isn't a style of music. A rap vocal track can also be sibilant. "Sibilance" is when the "ssss" and "ssshhhh" stand out too much and are a little harsh. That's the only issue I could find with your vocal track. And while it's possible that reverb can sometimes exaggerate sibilence, I'm pretty sure reverb isn't the culprit here.
 
I see what you mean Rami, theres no low cut on the vocals so im guessing its because i didnt use a pop filter, oh well, live and learn ;)

@ mixit, i played the track on AA and WMP through the same speakers and altered the levels to check each ones addition. The mp3 vocals were alot wetter. Im guessing mabey the only solution is to tame the verb in AA then mix down.
 
Oh, this is just too funny! My ribs hurt! :D

Nothing personal intended, not trying to be a jerk at all. Nothing like that. Just that if it was possible for a forum thread to have perfect comedic timing, the last couple of posts had them :).

G.
 
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