Looking for help with sudden onset of digital "beeps" into audio projects

R

RWhite

Well-known member
Hey guys, I’m making a rare visit from The Cave back to the forum that originally brought me to HR. After a long drought I’ve been working on some audio files again. And I’ve been trouble shooting some rather bizarre computer behavior that recently started and I wanted to see if anyone else has ever experienced anything like this.

First, my setup – Athlon 64 3200 CPU, Abit KV-8 mobo with VIA K8T800 Pro chipset, 512 mb RAM. My audio card is an M-Audio Audiophile 2496. My software is…. well, it can be anything (I’ll explain below).

This system was last set up (clean installed) about 8 months ago and has been stable ever since, and I was working on audio successfully with it two months ago. Something happened to it over the last 60 days. The problem is this: when I make any sort of modification to an audio file – really ANY file, using ANY program – there are digital “artifacts” introduced into it. Random beeps and tones.

I first noticed this a week ago when I just wanted to burn an audio CD. I used a program called LAME (basically a front end for the Lame MP3 encoder) to convert some MP3 files into WAVs, and then burnt them to a CD. When playing back the CD later I could plainly hear “beeps” and random tones in it. At first I thought maybe the original MP3s were bad, but on playback they sounded fine. I then played back the converted .WAV files and sure enough some of them were full of beeps. I thought it must be a problem with the software – I re-converted the messed up files using Sound Forge, and this time they worked fine. Problem solved – or I thought.

Today I returned to a project I had been working on, making digital recordings of cassettes (live band recordings from years ago). The initial 24 bit recording in Sound Forge worked fine – no artifacts in the file. But then I try to use ANY plug-in to modify the file, and the converted file comes up filled with random beeps. I tried using two different versions of Sound Forge and a bunch of different plug-ins – such as volume leveling – and I get the same result. Certain plug-ins (like the “Wave Hammer”) seem to introduce more beeps than others, but any plug-in I have tried will cause some artifacts to appear.

I have done all the usual trouble shooting. I went to M-Audios site and checked their knowledge base. I didn’t find anything exactly like my situation. I downloaded and installed the latest M-Audio drivers (only 1 version newer than what I had) and the latest VIA chipset driver (likewise) with no change.

I’ve tried to think what I may have changed recently. I installed Sony Vegas video to do some video editing, and about 2 weeks ago I ran Registry Mechanic to do a registry clean-up. My next move is to restore the registry to a prior restore point, but I frankly doubt that will fix it. The only other thing I can think of is maybe a RAM module is going bad, but every non-audio application works fine. And the audio in all my games works fine as well. The CPU I am using is a general-purpose computer, I only use this system for 2 channel audio – no multi-track recording.

OK – now what I’d like to know, has anyone here encountered a problem similar to mine? And if so, how did you fix it? If I cant find a solution I’ll have to move my audio work to a different system, which would be a royal pain.
 
RWhite said:
This system was last set up (clean installed) about 8 months ago and has been stable ever since, and I was working on audio successfully with it two months ago. Something happened to it over the last 60 days. The problem is this: when I make any sort of modification to an audio file – really ANY file, using ANY program – there are digital “artifacts” introduced into it. Random beeps and tones.
Click to expand...

Is there a cell phone anywhere nearby?
 
Moonrider said:
Is there a cell phone anywhere nearby?
Click to expand...

Do you mean that he's hearing the cell phone bleeding into the playback, or into the actual audio files? Cell phones will definitely bleed into monitors, but I don't think I've ever seen them bleed into the actual audio itself.

Do the random bleeps occur in exactly the same places every time you listen back?

If the last time you used the system for audio work was eight months ago, there's a lot you could have installed since then on your computer. Like, literally any program, game, virus detection, etc. You need to think back the full eight months and make a log of every single application you put on that computer. It's possible something you installed messed up your audio programs/settings.
 
Thanks for the replys. To respond....

Yes, there is a cell phone nearby. But all the recording is being done at line level (from a cassette deck through a mixer and into the 2496) so there is no "open mic". And the cell phone never went off during recording.

Yes the beeps occur at exactly the same place during repeated playbacks. If I burn the audio to a CD the beeps are there - they are apparently being inserted into the data files at the moment they are modified (i.e. a plug-in run or the file format converted).

The system was put together 8 months ago, but I last used it successfully for audio 2 months ago, as described.
 
8 months, 2 months--it doesn't matter, you need to go over every single change you might have made to the computer in that time. Every single app you installed.

The cell phone doesn't have to go off to interfere with audio. Also, it has nothing to do with open mics, and cell phones most definitely disturb line level audio.

When the cell phone "dials home" to check for messages, it sends out some pretty strong signals. These are easily picked up by audio equipment in the near vicinity.

What you need to do is turn your cell phone off when working with audio gear. Not on silent--power off. On silent the cell phone will still send out signal.

Everywhere I work it is now customary for the musicians to turn off their cell phones, and quite often the orchestra contractor will require it and remind everyone to turn off before the performance or recording.

I'm not saying that this what is causing your audio issues, but depending on what they sound like, it could be a possibility.
 
Thanks, I'll try killing the cell phone next.

I just finished some more troubleshooting. Disconnected from my LAN - no change. Disconnected all external USB devices (which were off anyway) - no change.

Its weird - I can load a large audio file that was just recorded, it plays fine. I select a 10 second section and play it - it plays fine. I then make a modification to that 10 second section with ANY plug-in (compressor, noise gate, whatever) and the modified section now has beeps in it. :confused:
 
Are you using plugins that are demo versions? Is your Sonar 6 a demo, or is it registered and paid for? Very often demos will introduce beeps into the audio.

If you own the plugins you are using, check to make sure the registrations are still valid and didn't get lost somehow.
 
Removing the cell phone didn't work.

I'm not using Sonar - at least not in this case (I own a copy of Sonar 2.0), I'm using Sound Forge. I have a copy of Sound Forge 5 which I own, and a copy of Sound Forge 9 which I don't. They behave identically, recordings sound fine but modifications screw things up. Most (95%) of the plug-ins I use are what came with my copy of Sound Forge 5.

I would not put it past these programs to fuck up - I have had HUGE problems with Sonic Foundry / Sony programs in the past - but it seems odd they would start now. It's possible that the installation of Sony Vegas screwed everything up, the timeline would support that. But I'm still researching.

I have started digging deeper in my bag of plug-ins, I think its possible that all my Sonic Foundry plug-ins may have become screwed up. The next step will be to re-install Sound Forge 5 and try it again. However since Sonic Foundry (and their web site) no longer exist, it is impossible to properly "register" the program.
 
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Sounds like the kind of beeps that Sonic Foundry's plug-in demos insert until you buy the product.

Sonic Foundry was bought by Sony a few years ago. Go to sonymediasolutions if you need to re-register your software.
 
MadAudio said:
Sounds like the kind of beeps that Sonic Foundry's plug-in demos insert until you buy the product.

Sonic Foundry was bought by Sony a few years ago. Go to sonymediasolutions if you need to re-register your software.
Click to expand...

Sony will not re-register Sonic Foundry products. Also, Sound Forge 5 is hard-coded to send its registration requests to a Sonic Foundry web site that no longer exists.

Their line is "You are fucked, buy our newer version". :mad:
 
Definitely check your plug ins and that you're software is paid for.

The only other thing that comes to mind is the computer's system beep. In other words- the computer might be telling you that it is overheating or there is some other prob. Or something as simple as email notifications.
 
RWhite said:
I have a copy of Sound Forge 5 which I own, and a copy of Sound Forge 9 which I don't.
Click to expand...

I've found it to not necessarily be a good idea to run two different version of the same software. It sounds like you are using Sound Forge 5 plugins within Sound Forge 9? Even if not, the preferences for each program or the plugins could be conflicting. When did you install or start using SF9? It also sounds like you are using a pirated/cracked version of SF9. Moral issues aside, that is an invitation for problems and might be part of what is causing your issues.

You might want to try a completely different audio application and see if you still get the beeps when working with it. If not, that will tell you the problems are specific to your Sound Forge setup.
 
Well I think I'm getting closer to a diagnosis. Thanks for the input.

First I went back and tried to duplicate the original problem I encountered - beeps introduced into .WAV files after converting from .MP3 files. I tried using Razor Lame ( http://lame.sourceforge.net/links.php#Windows ) which is what I was sure I had first used, but I could not get it to screw up - now it works perfectly.

So I figure maybe my memory was faulty, and I had used the Sound Forge Batch converter - something which is a stand-alone program under Sound Forge 5 but built in to Sound Forge 9. This makes a degree of sense because I would have used version 9 (the only reason I have it is MP3 support, see below) and version 9 IS a "demo". However this proved to be a dry well also because after repeated tests converting batchs of MP3s to WAVs I couldn't get it to screw up - it works perfectly. :confused:

Then just to confirm that the problem is still there I went back to Sound Forge 5, loaded a .WAV file, and attempted to modify a short span of it. Again I have beeps and random tones inserted into the part of the file I modified - the rest remains fine. So I'm pretty sure it is a plug-in problem.

So my best guess at this point is that when I recntly installed Sound Forge 9 or Sony Vegas Video one or the other overwrote all my Sound Forge 5 plug-ins. This seems rather odd since they install into a "Sony" folder while the older SF version 5 is in a seperate "Sonic Foundry" folder, but I'm guessing now that all Direct X plug-ins must go to a common system folder, perhaps c:windowssystem 32.

Now to explain why I have two version of Sound Forge installed... I bought version 5 boxed, retail, "back in the day". Along with earlier editions of Acid and Video Factory (the then equivlent of "Vegas lite"). Over a period of about a year Sonic Foundry annoyed the living fuck out of me in an endless variety of ways involving required patches & upgrades. But what most pissed me off was the way Sound Forge treated .MP3 files.

Despite being the "Pro" version of Sound Forge, version 5 only supported saving an .MP3 file 10 times total before it insisted on your buying an "MP3 upgrade pack". Despite the fact that the box said otherwise - it claimed full .MP3 support. With little choice I purchased said MP3 pack as a download ($20 I believe), thinking I would be getting a file patch download that I could then apply to the install. Instead it just installed an "upgrade" to the PC I was on at that moment - despite the fact that the computer I was actually ordering from didn't even HAVE Sound Forge installed (my studio PC of the time was not connected to the internet). When I contacted Sonic Foundry about this they told me my only choice was to connect my studio PC to the internet and buy the same upgrade AGAIN - they would NOT refund my initial $20. They also said that if I ever had to reformat & re-install my studio system, I would have to pay the $20 EACH TIME. What the hell kind of upgrade was that??? :mad:

Ultimately I actually did that, I spent a second $20 because I needed it at the time, but that was the start of my "private war" against Sonic Foundry & later Sony (detailed in this very forum some years ago). So while I prefer to buy my software I make an exception with Sony & Sonic Foundry products - they can all lick my ass. So yes, I have a "Demo" copy of Sound Forge 9 installed for one single reason - it (and it's included Batch Converter) will convert & save MP3 files, which my copy of version 5 will not (that $20 MP3 add-on vanished along with Sonic Foundry). Up until now it has not been a problem, but obviously I need to find another solution to mass-MP3 conversion.

So my next step will be to un-install version 5 and then re-install, once again going through the familiar B.S. as it trys to register to a web site that no longer exists. When it detects an active internet link but cannot find the site, it will eventually conclude that the site is down and enable the software.
 
OK! Well after some digging I have figured out what the problem is. And while there may be no easy solution, I managed to solve some other related problems during the trouble-shooting process.

The problem was indeed improperly registered software. First, Sony plug-ins packaged with Sound Forge 9 which over-wrote earlier identically named plug-ins from Sonic Foundry Sound Forge 5. Second, some of my legally purchased Sonic Foundry software which was unable to “phone home” to the now defunct Sonic Foundry website. The beeps and tones are, as Madaudio suggested, intentionally being inserted into the modified product in order to punish me for running un-registered software.

The first part of the answer had been, I should say, staring me in the face all along. When going through the plug-in list of my Sound Forge 5 most of the built in plug-ins had been renamed, for example “Noise Gate” has become “Sony Noise gate”, “Chorus” has now become “Sony Chorus”, etc. These plug-ins all now fail miserably due to their parent being unregistered. Even more annoying, un-installing both Sound Forge 9 AND 5 and then re-installing version 5 does not bring back my old plug-ins (yet another example of how an un-install isn’t REALLY an un-install). The new plug-ins are stuck like a tick to a deer’s ass, and it may be a challenge to remove them. I have located their file’s positions and their spots in the registry but have not yet attempted OS brain surgery.

Those plug-ins which were not duplicated & over written (those labeled “Sonic Foundry”) all work fine.

However not everything was bad news…. When I went back and experimented with the Sonic Foundry Batch Converter 5 I found that it would spread its wonderful symphony of beeps throughout any file (or group of files) that it converted. Even without any plug-ins being used (Oddly enough the batch converter in my “demo” copy of Sound Forge 9 had no such issue). So this got me thinking again that there might be some way to patch or “hack” the program into thinking that it was, in fact, registered. This led me back to Sony’s Tech Support web page where I have not been for some time.

Before long I did indeed find a page containing information about how to modify your older copies of Sound Forge to make them “phone home” to Sony, rather than the MIA Sonic Foundry. They listed patches for Sound Forge versions 3, 4, 4.5, 6, 7…. Wtf?? Where the hell is version 5??? I dug around further but could find NOTHING about how to fix version 5. It was as if Sony had it’s own personal FUCK YOU! Saved up for me. So I decided to do that most useless of desperation moves: to write an email to Tech Support. Realizing that I would probably never hear back from them, I started writing an email… and then back-tracked to look for a link to include in the email.

By some heavenly miracle I literally mis-typed my way to a new link – a “Phone Home” patch that promised to patch ALL old Sonic Foundry programs so that their (re)registration demands would be re-routed to Sony. Even more amazing is that Sony had an available download – Batch Converter 5.0b for Sound Forge 5 – that provides unlimited MP3 support, solving my biggest single beef with the product line. Figuring it would be entertaining if nothing else, I downloaded the tool, then re-installed ALL my old Sonic Foundry Programs – Sound Forge, ACID, Video factory, Batch Converter, etc. I then ran the patch tool and it correctly identified and patched every program EXCEPT Sound Forge 5. It also identified and patched an MP3 plug-in. I was then able to launch every program and run their registration programs – and I’ll be dammed if it didn’t work!

And after looking over Sound Forge 5 I am thinking that perhaps the reason there is no patch for it is that it doesn’t really need one. It still has an unresolved menu item “register your software” but everything in it (except its new Sony plug-ins) works – and now that its MP3 plug-in has been registered it is fully “MP3 ready”.

So my problems are partly resolved. I have to grudgingly thank Sony for giving me a way of “Sonic Foundry registration hell”. I’m still left with a partly crippled version of Sound Forge 5 filled with Sony plug-ins that don’t work. I have yet to un-install my copy of Sony Vegas (which uses these same shared plug-ins), and I wont be able to do that for a few days because of a project I am working on. Hopefully then I’ll be able to un-install everything, manually delete the plug-in .dlls, manually purge the registry of everything that says “Sony”, and then re-install SF. version 5. And if I am lucky, in the end have a computer left that actually functions.

And yes Albert, consider your advise well founded. Two versions of the same software – even those with a different name installing into different folders – is a BAD idea.
 
That's an appalling policy regarding the mp3 upgrade, I don't blame you for being upset. I suggest you buy an inexpensive standalone batch converter do it all in that. That way you won't have to hassle with the $20 per install issue.

Have you tried a free or shareware mp3 converter? Seems like there should be a ton of them out there. I am on a Mac, so I don't know PC versions and compatibility, but you might want to try this one:

http://www.download3000.com/download_17080.html

There have to be a lot more like that, as well.
 
Well, that's great they have a registration path for you and that you now get unlimited mp3 conversion. They must have gotten a *lot* of complaints about their previous policy, as it was truly unacceptable.

From the sound of it, I don't think version 5 and version 9 will coexist peacefully together on your computer. Once you get version 5 up and running properly again, I wouldn't be surprised if version 9 then becomes broken. At least as far as the plugins.

So you might want to delete version 9 and all related files, so there is no more confusion for your computer about them. I've had to do this from time to time, you just have to make a choice and live with it.

Or perhaps you'll get lucky and they'll both work.

Anyway, it sounds like you are on the right path now and a solution is in sight. Sometimes deep troubleshooting is a good thing!
 
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