I have some experience at recording rap/hip-hop vocals on PC, but I always used a couple different friends equipment. Now I'm looking to set up a little studio for me to record and produce hip hop and also dabble in some electronic music. So far I know that I will for sure be using a Mac. I have a budget of around $5,000 including the computer. Any recommendations on a Mic and preamp/interface to use with the Mac. And also what software would you say is the most user friendly yet professional to use with OS X?
Looking for a Mac setup.
- Thread starter DJBC
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dgatwood
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Computer: Mac Pro (any model). You can do it with anything all the way down to the Mini, but the Mac Pro's larger enclosure should significantly reduce the amount of work you have to do to keep fan noise out of your recordings (assuming you're building a single-room setup).
Audio hardware: any FireWire interface by MOTU. I've generally found their FireWire drivers to be some of the most thoroughly debugged drivers out there, with a few rare exceptions.
Software: Logic (Apple) and Digital Performer (MOTU) are both good choices, IMHO. MOTU audio interfaces come with DP's little brother, AudioDesk, and you can upgrade from there. That said, I'm guessing you'll be doing a lot of MIDI stuff, and for that, Logic is probably a better choice.
Preamp: no real opinion.
Mics: check out the twenty bazillion "which mic for under $X should I get for hip hop" threads over in the Microphones forum.
Also, don't forget a good pair of headphones for tracking and a good set of near field monitors for mixing.
Audio hardware: any FireWire interface by MOTU. I've generally found their FireWire drivers to be some of the most thoroughly debugged drivers out there, with a few rare exceptions.
Software: Logic (Apple) and Digital Performer (MOTU) are both good choices, IMHO. MOTU audio interfaces come with DP's little brother, AudioDesk, and you can upgrade from there. That said, I'm guessing you'll be doing a lot of MIDI stuff, and for that, Logic is probably a better choice.
Preamp: no real opinion.
Mics: check out the twenty bazillion "which mic for under $X should I get for hip hop" threads over in the Microphones forum.
Also, don't forget a good pair of headphones for tracking and a good set of near field monitors for mixing.
Computer: Mac Pro (any model). You can do it with anything all the way down to the Mini, but the Mac Pro's larger enclosure should significantly reduce the amount of work you have to do to keep fan noise out of your recordings (assuming you're building a single-room setup).
Audio hardware: any FireWire interface by MOTU. I've generally found their FireWire drivers to be some of the most thoroughly debugged drivers out there, with a few rare exceptions.
Software: Logic (Apple) and Digital Performer (MOTU) are both good choices, IMHO. MOTU audio interfaces come with DP's little brother, AudioDesk, and you can upgrade from there. That said, I'm guessing you'll be doing a lot of MIDI stuff, and for that, Logic is probably a better choice.
Preamp: no real opinion.
Mics: check out the twenty bazillion "which mic for under $X should I get for hip hop" threads over in the Microphones forum.
Also, don't forget a good pair of headphones for tracking and a good set of near field monitors for mixing.
I wouldn't waste money on the Mac Pro, especially if you're going to just be using a Firewire interface. Most, if not all DAW software vendors are not coding their apps in a way that fully utilizes the Xeon processors in Mac Pros:
http://theappleblog.com/2009/11/30/rumor-has-it-6-core-i9-mac-pro-due-in-2010-but-it-hardly-matters/
The 27" Core i7 iMacs will have more than enough power and are a great deal considering you're also getting a 27" LCD panel capable of running at 2560x1440 included in the price ($2199). A 30" Apple Cinema Display by itself costs $1799.
Mac Pro's are for people who need internal RAID and PCI Express expansion slots (Pro Tools HD or HD video editing).
Besides, 6 Core i9 "Gulftown" Mac Pro's are just around the corner due in 2010 so the current Xeon models will quickly become outdated.
dgatwood
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That article is complete rubbish. Logic scales up to 8 cores, and I'm pretty sure Digital Performer does, too---for sure 4 cores. Audio plug-in hosting is the most trivial scaling problem you could possibly ask for in parallel computing. A monkey flinging crap at the wall could do a halfway decent job at handling four cores.
A $600 Mac Mini has more than enough power. Heck, a first-generation Core Duo Mini from four years ago has more than enough CPU power.... That doesn't mean it's the best choice for recording.
Regarding the panel, according to Engadget, the 27" panel in the iMac is from LG. I can get a 27" LG panel for about $400. Let's put the panel price back in perspective.
I couldn't disagree more. Mac Pros:
- Produce less noise because their fans run slower for longer.
- Have additional internal drive bays for *when* (not if) you run out of storage.
- Have non-mobile CPUs.
- Support PCIe audio interface setups (not just Pro Tools).
- Can be expanded with additional FireWire busses if you start to hit channel count limitations on a single FireWire bus (or if your internal bus fries itself).
- Don't tie you permanently to a specific display configuration.
- Can be easily placed *outside* the recording studio with longer cables, unlike the iMac.
There are a *lot* of reasons I recommend the Pro if you can afford it. It's not a requirement, but if you're planning to spend $5k, IMHO you're much better off spending the extra few hundred bucks for the Pro and a Samsung or LG monitor. Spend another $550 for a MOTU 8Pre or similar, spend a few hundred on mics, a few hundred on nearfield monitors, and the rest on bass traps (not those stupid corner diffusers).
Intel releases new CPUs pretty frequently. I can't think of a time when I couldn't say that a new model of Mac Pro with a faster CPU wasn't just around the corner.
This wasn't about cores, it was about a full 64bit system - Logic is not yet a 64bit app that makes use of Snow Leopard's Grand Central architecture. Why spend the extra money on the Pro then? Given past Apple development schedules, we won't see Logic 10 until 2011 which would most likely be the version to fully support what Snow Leopard has to offer.
A $600 Mac Mini has more than enough power. Heck, a first-generation Core Duo Mini from four years ago has more than enough CPU power.... That doesn't mean it's the best choice for recording.
Doesn't relate to the topic at all. Just because you have a huge budget, you shouldn't use over half of it for a computer alone. I think it would be wiser to get the computer you really need and use more money on other gear (good studio monitors, higher end audio interface with better DACs).
$400 gets you a 27" LG LCD that does only 1920x1080 - the iMac display does 2560x1440. More real estate is ALWAYS a good thing with DAWs.
I work on a MacPro 40 hours a week - they are by no means "quiet"
I still disagree - the cost difference does not equal the difference in value, especially when the system is going to be used as a DAW, not a Final Cut HD editing station or 3D rendering workstation.
Intel releases new CPUs pretty frequently. I can't think of a time when I couldn't say that a new model of Mac Pro with a faster CPU wasn't just around the corner.
Apple does not release new product every time Intel updates chips. This last processor update was a minor update to an aging platform used by the Mac Pro for several years now. The i9 update is a much bigger revision.
dgatwood
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First, it's Grand Central Dispatch, not "Grand Central". "Grand Central" was the interrupt controller chip in the original PCI PowerMac computers, circa 1996.
Second, you probably won't ever see Logic take advantage of GCD, or at least not the version of GCD that shipped in Snow Leopard. It's completely unsuitable for real-time tasks like audio processing. That's simply not what it was designed for. GCD is designed to be an alternative to applications having to manage their own thread pools, and it is designed to maximize performance in an environment where you have a dozen different apps competing for processor resources, none of which have any specific real-time performance requirements.
Logic and other DAWs already manage their own thread pools, are generally the only running application at the time, and have strict real-time constraints on most of their threads. They're just not a good fit for GCD at this time.
And 64-bit is largely irrelevant, too; maybe you'd get a very slight win in CPU overhead, in exchange for a massively increased RAM footprint, but that RAM footprint means lower track caching, and thus greater odds of disk performance underruns, so it's very much a mixed bag..
And neither of these things has anything to do with what hardware you choose; if/when Logic changes to use some of those technologies, performance will either get better or worse across all recent CPUs.
Again, though, with the Mac Pro, you have the option of putting the box outside the room if it is too loud. That's how my G5 is set up. If I had an iMac, it would be a much harder setup to deal with because the monitor and the computer are not separable.
True. The point still remains, though, that there is always something better around the corner. The question is whether you can wait a year to buy your machine. According to a leaked Intel roadmap from about a month ago, the i9 isn't scheduled for release until Q2 2010, so odds are you're looking at mid-year at the earliest before you'd be able to buy a computer with that in it.
alohachris
New member
My Two Cents on Choosing a Mac Recording Rig
Aloha DJBC,
There is plenty of great back and forth info in the previous posts to help you form an informed opinion. Good arguments for both simple and complex rigs.
My thoughts, based on recent experience and three years of prior research.
- No matter which rig you put together, dedicate it to recording only. DO NOT do any everyday computing on it or problems will arise. Read the section on maximizing computers for DAWS in the "computer" section at gearslutz.com.
- Your $5K budget can provide you with any model of Mac in a great combo that you'd want to start with. I suggest you start out one of the iMacs. The Mini is great, but it does not offer a 500 GB 7200 rpm HD and you'd have to increase the RAM anyway (limited to 4GB's on the mini). Upgrading that would take your price up from $600 to nearer $1K. Better to get one of the iMacs which already has those in place and offer much more - the basic model is just over $1K right now. Depending on what your goals are the Mac Pro may be unnecessary spending with features you don't need at this time. If you're new to computer recording, KISS - keep it simple. There's a steep learning curve at first.
- Your choice of rig and computer will depend completely on whether you're going to be building mega tracks in large projects or are just looking to record two tracks at a time - or something in between. Type of music? Pro or home studio? Midi? Software instruments? Loops? Third Party Plug-ins? Answer those questions before you buy and this main one: What are your recording goals?
- IMO, go with an integrated Mac system. Get one of the new iMacs (the new i7 Quad Core iMac may be overkill at $2.2K). Dive in with Logic Pro 9 as your DAW. Get an Apogee Duet or Ensemble interface (much better in everyway - pre's, conversion and clock - than anything from MOTU for sound quality). Get an external firewire hard drive for project storage such as the Glyph 050Q from Sweetwater, the best with the best warranty.
Apple and Apogee have fully integrated the software and hardware into this combo. YOU CANNOT BEAT IT FOR SOUND, SYSTEM COMPATIBILITY and STABILITY in a basic Mac rig! I know, I tried ALL of the DAW's including PTLE before buying the Mac/Logic/Apogee/Glyph rig. And it would work well within your budget.
A Mac Pro would eat up your budget. But it could be necessary once you answer the questions above. If you're new to recording, or have simpler goals you do not need a Mac Pro yet.
- Pro Tools LE is an error-prone program. Pro Tools HD ($14,000) is the best DAW and the Pro Tools most often referred to when talking about the "industry standard." In my experience, LE is a limited PIA that's not even close to HD or Logic, IMO. Logic works better (fewer errors) with Macs.
- Don't get used to Mac's free DAW Garageband workflow and then try to move up to Logic if you want pro sound results and less hassles. If you haven't used a DAW previously, it's better to go right into Logic so you don't have to break established habits later - no matter how GB is designed as a stepping stone to Logic. Although not perfect & with bugs of its own, Logic is not a "light edition" DAW like PTLE. And its got more features than any DAW on the market.
Once you get the basic setup, and put the time into learning Logic Pro, and really get going, then you can build up your rig's front end with great boutique or vintage mics and pre's - which is where the best money should be spent in recording, IMO. Or try other interfaces like Metric Halo or PCI cards for lowest latency.
Finally, it won't be too long before Logic is full 64-bit. We're all waiting for them to get off their okoles on that one!
Just my opinions, friends. Good luck with your research and purchases, DJBC.
A Hui Hou!
alohachris
Aloha DJBC,
There is plenty of great back and forth info in the previous posts to help you form an informed opinion. Good arguments for both simple and complex rigs.
My thoughts, based on recent experience and three years of prior research.
- No matter which rig you put together, dedicate it to recording only. DO NOT do any everyday computing on it or problems will arise. Read the section on maximizing computers for DAWS in the "computer" section at gearslutz.com.
- Your $5K budget can provide you with any model of Mac in a great combo that you'd want to start with. I suggest you start out one of the iMacs. The Mini is great, but it does not offer a 500 GB 7200 rpm HD and you'd have to increase the RAM anyway (limited to 4GB's on the mini). Upgrading that would take your price up from $600 to nearer $1K. Better to get one of the iMacs which already has those in place and offer much more - the basic model is just over $1K right now. Depending on what your goals are the Mac Pro may be unnecessary spending with features you don't need at this time. If you're new to computer recording, KISS - keep it simple. There's a steep learning curve at first.
- Your choice of rig and computer will depend completely on whether you're going to be building mega tracks in large projects or are just looking to record two tracks at a time - or something in between. Type of music? Pro or home studio? Midi? Software instruments? Loops? Third Party Plug-ins? Answer those questions before you buy and this main one: What are your recording goals?
- IMO, go with an integrated Mac system. Get one of the new iMacs (the new i7 Quad Core iMac may be overkill at $2.2K). Dive in with Logic Pro 9 as your DAW. Get an Apogee Duet or Ensemble interface (much better in everyway - pre's, conversion and clock - than anything from MOTU for sound quality). Get an external firewire hard drive for project storage such as the Glyph 050Q from Sweetwater, the best with the best warranty.
Apple and Apogee have fully integrated the software and hardware into this combo. YOU CANNOT BEAT IT FOR SOUND, SYSTEM COMPATIBILITY and STABILITY in a basic Mac rig! I know, I tried ALL of the DAW's including PTLE before buying the Mac/Logic/Apogee/Glyph rig. And it would work well within your budget.
A Mac Pro would eat up your budget. But it could be necessary once you answer the questions above. If you're new to recording, or have simpler goals you do not need a Mac Pro yet.
- Pro Tools LE is an error-prone program. Pro Tools HD ($14,000) is the best DAW and the Pro Tools most often referred to when talking about the "industry standard." In my experience, LE is a limited PIA that's not even close to HD or Logic, IMO. Logic works better (fewer errors) with Macs.
- Don't get used to Mac's free DAW Garageband workflow and then try to move up to Logic if you want pro sound results and less hassles. If you haven't used a DAW previously, it's better to go right into Logic so you don't have to break established habits later - no matter how GB is designed as a stepping stone to Logic. Although not perfect & with bugs of its own, Logic is not a "light edition" DAW like PTLE. And its got more features than any DAW on the market.
Once you get the basic setup, and put the time into learning Logic Pro, and really get going, then you can build up your rig's front end with great boutique or vintage mics and pre's - which is where the best money should be spent in recording, IMO. Or try other interfaces like Metric Halo or PCI cards for lowest latency.
Finally, it won't be too long before Logic is full 64-bit. We're all waiting for them to get off their okoles on that one!
Just my opinions, friends. Good luck with your research and purchases, DJBC.
A Hui Hou!
alohachris
Last edited:
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
I'm going to disagree with you there. I think that if you look at feature counts, Digital Performer is ahead of Logic. Where Logic excels is that it comes with truckloads of samples, loops, virtual instruments, and plug-ins.
So the better choice depends largely on your goals, your genre, etc. I do agree that for this particular person, based on the musical genre mentioned, Logic would probably be a better choice.