Looking for a good Mic/Pre amp combo for hip Hop vocals.

D

Divine

The Ultimate
I am in the process off getting my home studio up and running. I will most likely be doing everything digital on my computer using a MOTU 828. I am trying to get some information on a good Microphone to use for recording vocals (HIP HOP). I want to have a full sound that is not brittle and full of high end.
I have some experience running recording equipment but never got much education on microphones so I am kinda lost on what to look for in a mic.
I also would be interested in what people have to say about good pre amps.
Overall I would be willing to spend around 2k but would prefer to spend less if possible (But I will not compromise sound to save money).

Help me out if you can, I would appreciate it alot, thanks!
 
If you like WU

I saw an mtv special and believe it or not Method Man said they use a SansAmp rack unit as a preamp for drums and vocals to get a dirtier sound. (SansAmp is made for guitars that go direct )Specifically regarding the drums, they use electronics/loops so the SansAmp is actually a neat way to pre process those sound before they get into the board.

Not sure what mikes they use but honestly, MTV diarys (back off critics in the peanut galleryI am over 30 ) always uses some studio footage and keen eyes (or videotape) can reveal lots of gear ....

nP
 
Thanks for the tip. I heard something about the RZA using guitar effects on lots of stuff before. I will look into it more.
 
marshall mxl v67g sounds surprisingly good for hip-hop. A friend of mine uses it on rap vocals and it sound classy.

Its less than $200
 
I havent heard to much about Marshall mics, I will look at it.
I would think people used more exspensive mics to record vocals. I am trying to get a pro sound, but if it can be done at a price like that all the better.
I was thinking I would have to spend at least 1000$ to get a good mic.
 
If you NEED to spend $1000 on a mic, then the mic to get is a soundelux u195.

However, before you do that listen to these cuts.
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/alternative/testerslogic/

Listen to "PUT Your hands on something.
THis rap track was done by my friend with a mxl v67g into a m-audio dmp2 into a 16bit soundcard at 44,100 into cubaseMixed with radioshack speakers. Total cost was $185 for the vox channel.

NOw compare it to any of the mainstream rap out there right now(except missy-e) and see if you can hear a major difference in the vocal sound. Missy E is an exception. Her album sounds Phat all the way from the vocals to the low end.

ALso listen to "HIGHLY intoxicated" which was done by me with a $75 shure sm58 into a sytek mpx4a.
What you'll realize is that you dont need an expensive mic . You need great converters for pro sound. You also need accurate monitoring and a good effects box.
 
I have a buddy in germany who is deeply involved in the german hip hop scene and he loves his TLA voice channels (i think they are called radius in the states). Not shure about the model, but they set them back around 700 USD each.
On vocals he is using a U87 and the at4035 (a model that seems to be in between the 4033 and the 4050 and is distributed exclusively in the UK and Germany)
 
CyanJaguar said:

ALso listen to "HIGHLY intoxicated" which was done by me with a $75 shure sm58 into a sytek mpx4a.
What you'll realize is that you dont need an expensive mic . You need great converters for pro sound. You also need accurate monitoring and a good effects box.
Click to expand...

Ok I see where you are coming from. this is the inforamtion I needed. If you are saying a mic isnt the essential part of vocal recording, then please advice me on a few good converters. I would appreciate it.

Thanks
 
If you are striving for a mix that is as close to pro as possible, I would say that the most essential thing is the monitors. I've heard crappy mixes done with expensive equipment but mixed on crappy monitors. My two preferences are : Yamaha ns10m, you can find it used for $300 or less. If you get it to sound good here, it will sound good anywhere, GUARANTEED. This is if you mix at 85dbs average.

My other faves are the event 20/20s. I have never mixed with them, but every mix that I have heard that came off them has a very pleasing sound to it. Clean and big. Unpowered version is about $300 new

A good preamp is almost more important than the choice of mic, given that the mic is of reasonable quality. A good preamp gives you clarity or bigness. I like the peavey vmp2 tube. Its $750 new for two channels but its sound is HUGE. I also like my sytek mpx4a, which is extra clear for about $750.
If you are looking in the $500 or less range, the mindprint envoice is tight, so are the joemeek vc1q, or a symetrix 528 for about $250 used on ebay which is very big sounding and totally spec'd out.

YOur converters are also a big factor in the quest for pro sound.
If you hear a solo vocal done with a cheap converter and a pro converter, the difference is like night and day. I use lucid ad9624 for about $700 for two channels, but you can use a delta 1010 which sounds almost as good and has more inputs and outputs for $500. Some people find it hard to hear a difference between the 1010 and the ad9624.

A mic is very important, but good mics are getting more inexpensive every day. apart from the soundelux, there is not a mic under $`1000 that I really like.

The most important thing, of course, is a banging beat and a tight hook. You can be using the cheapest gear, but if your beat hits hard and the hook is tight, people will listen.
 
CyanJaguar said:
If you are striving for a mix that is as close to pro as possible, I would say that the most essential thing is the monitors. I've heard crappy mixes done with expensive equipment but mixed on crappy monitors. My two preferences are : Yamaha ns10m, you can find it used for $300 or less. If you get it to sound good here, it will sound good anywhere, GUARANTEED. This is if you mix at 85dbs average.
Click to expand...

You are mixing hiphop on monitors that give you nothing below 100hz???? You must be a magician...if it sounds good on them, you may still blow the subwoofer in your car, because you simply don't know whats going on in the bass.
Just my 2 cents
Harald
 
h kuhn,

That seems to be the prevaling opinion about ns10ms. The fact is that ns10ms have useable material below 100hz. THey claim to go to 40 and they do, even though the low end rolls off pretty quickly. Thats why you have to run them at 85 dbs where material is flattest.

I had a pair of monitor 2twos. They are reputed to be bassy(ten inch woofer), but there was nothing that I heard on them that I cant hear on the ns10ms. The ns10ms dont hide detail like the Alesis did.

I also have a pair of three way home speakers with 12 inch woofers that I check on (you should always check on another system) and I never find anything in the bass that needs fixing.

NS10s rule.
 
As sonusman said,

maybe the reason the ns10s did not sound good was that the tracking was bad and they revealed that. :D

Remember, the ns10ms are quite good at revealing every little detail.
 
CyanJaguar said:
As sonusman said,

maybe the reason the ns10s did not sound good was that the tracking was bad and they revealed that. :D

Remember, the ns10ms are quite good at revealing every little detail.
Click to expand...

My experience was the oposite: It is very dificult to do serious tracking on them, as you cannot really judge the sound. It sounds all as if it came out of a boombox. I had the case recently. THey recorded accoustic with double bass, in the studio where the mixing was done, they had genelecs, and these revealed, that the fundametals simply weren't there. On the NS10 it sounded OK (tracking was monitored with them). I tested my m1 actives side by side against the ns10, and eventhough I am the first one to say that the m1 sucks, the ns10 does so even more. they give you detail, but only in a very limited frequency range.
 
Well I have learned some new things from this disccusion so far. Getting back to my original question I am going to ask... Wht kind of recording set up (Mics, Pres, Convertors ...)do you think you would put together on a $2000 budget.
I will be recording into a Motu 828. I am still trying to decide if I will mix on a board or digital.

thanks yall!
 
For $2000 and my .02 cents I'd recommend,

Audio Technica 4047 large diaphram condenser $500

Empirical Labs Distressor EL8 $1200

PreSonus MP20 $470

If you bought them from the same place you could negotiate a good deal and probably come in around $2000. The Distressor would give your vocals character, fatness, compression, and an analog-like effect. It's becoming a standard in hip-hop studios.
 
for $2000,

I would recommend

delta 1010 $500
yamaha ns10ms or event 2020 $500 amped
Behringer B2 mic. Sounds big. $200 To me, it sounds better than the rodes or the audio technicas'
Peavey vmp2 tube preamp : $750
$50 for mic cables and stands

I am assuming that you already have your sounds(via keyboard or sampler) and a computer to run everything.

If you dont want to spend $750 on a pre, then the new focusrite at $299 sounds good and has compression and it looks REALLY good. or try the envoice.
 
Yeah I allready got my computer ( an imac) and I have an ASR 10 an MPC2000XL and a Proteus2000. I am just putting together the recording side of it. My weakest area of knowledge is microphones, pre amps and convertors. All my studio experience in the past, I never took alot of time to learn about the better recording gear. I was just happy to have a spot to record (I can engineer a session). Aso over the last couple years I wasnt as serious but now I am trying to get it all together. Everyones input is greatly appreciated!

With some of the set ups mentioned previously, could I run those while doing digital recording through a mac? I have been hearing that I wouldnt probally even need a mixer and could do everything on my computer but I am a little skeptical (Since I never mixed like that before).
 
you dont need a mixer.

ALso, its better to mix in the computer than go out to a cheap(>$10000) mixer. Many big names in the industry use Logic audio platinum. I see that you are preety hooked up on the sounds side.
 
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