LOO - Love Of Omnis

H

hairylarry

New member
Hi,

Anthony asked me a question about dynamic omnis so I thought I'd post my answer. Please add your thoughts on omnis. When you would use them and how. Also any additional history of omnis in audio recording would be cool.

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The EV RE50 and the EV 635a are really the same mic and they are the workhorses for video studios, ENG, interviews, etc. The 635 is still in production so that keeps the used cost down. $50-$100. Great mics. Used to record vocals, cabs, etc. on many hit records. Also omnipresent on the Lawrence Welk show which did have great production values whatever you think of the music.

I like the RE50 clones, Realistic 1070 b,c, or d. Or a step up would be the EV PL9s or EV RE55s. The Radio Shack mics were made by Shure in Mexico and they have an extended frequency response and a midrange bump compared to the RE50s. The RE55s were often chosen by high end European recording companies when recording symphonies direct to disk. They are an extremely flat wide frequency response omni. The PL9s are similar to the RE55s but are less expensive.

I do a lot of recording outside and wind noise is always a factor. I will use a pair of omnis as a spaced pair and put foam windscreens on them. This setup gets the least wind noise of anything I have tried.

I also use my omnis recording acoustic guitar where I can place them very close to the strings without any proximity effect. And I have used them for recording vocals or horns. They are also great for cabs. Doing live music you can just hang them down in front of the speaker looping the cord through the handle and they will do the trick.

Generally speaking a pair of omnis are your safest bet for recording stereo in unusual conditions which is why they are the field recorder's first choice.

I know they're not fashionable anymore but I use my omnis all the time.

I also have a pair of Naiant condenser omnis that are just superb and I will sometimes choose them over the dynamic in a controlled setting like a studio. Another good way to record stereo with omnis is a Jecklin Disc. X-Y stereo recording doesn't work well with omnis. The X-Y technique is for cardiods.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
I need to dress them up with some eq but I'm getting real good results with QTC's as my main kit pair.
 
Omnis are great, I use them more than directional mics nowadays.

Though I prefer condensers (Sennheiserr MKH 20 and 8020 and Neumann KM 131-D and KM 183-D).

Normally 20cm spaced pair for a grand piano, or in a Jecklin or Schneider Disk.

But omnis are getting more popular nowadays as people realise their strengths - and you don't have any proximity effect (bass tip-up) with omnis.
 
My main pair are OMNIs. Actually my only PAIR are OMNIs. Everything else are singles. I tried cardioids once and it was issue after issue that I just didn't have with OMNI mics. handling noise, proximity effect, wind noise, low SPL limit, and other what was I thinking moments. But OMNIs do have their weaknesses, low ceilings or too close to the back wall and they suddenly sound much worse than one normally gets out in the wide open.
 
Shadow_7 said:
.. But OMNIs do have their weaknesses, low ceilings or too close to the back wall and they suddenly sound much worse than one normally gets out in the wide open.
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At some point if the wall' is close enough, the caps right up on it removes that interference and gets you pretty much into PZM' mode. (I've only done it once for a kit, small stage, drums and amps all crammed up against the hard back wall. Not a bad option given the close quarters anyway. :)
 
this is funny....

dynamic omnis are all i know! i've never owned a 57, and i have a 58 that never gets used.

What i do have though is 4x 635a and 4x D054 that i just use like 57s....snares,guitar cabs etc.

i love em and they were all so cheap :)
 
what are your strategies for placement/direction when recording with omnis, either single or in pairs? Do you aim them straight upward? at the source? away from the source? etc. Post some of your techniques for various applications.
 
mixsit said:
At some point if the wall' is close enough, the caps right up on it removes that interference and gets you pretty much into PZM' mode. (I've only done it once for a kit, small stage, drums and amps all crammed up against the hard back wall. Not a bad option given the close quarters anyway. :)
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Yes - this works very well.
 
brother rat said:
what are your strategies for placement/direction when recording with omnis, either single or in pairs? Do you aim them straight upward? at the source? away from the source? etc. Post some of your techniques for various applications.
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It all depends.

It also depends on the omnis.

The picture below shows a piano recital session I recorded in the Menuhin Hall.

The Sennheiser MKH 20s are pointing towards the piano because they are flat response in the nearfield. The Neumann KM 183-D are pointing upwards because they are diffuse field omnis being used in the nearfield and rotating the mic. gives them a flat response at 90-degrees off-axis.

The Neumanns were the main pair that was used - in this instance the MKH 20s were the back-up system.

RM_Piano_KMD.jpg


The above recording sessions were to produce four recital CDs - there was a pressing run of 3,000 for each of the CDs and the client was extremely happy with the results. :cool:

I also use omni pairs in a Jecklin or Schneider disk.
 
I point my mics at the source, but run them in parallel at 17cm. With fake fur on them, there's twice the fake fur mic to mic and that helps make more of a stereo image. But that's the advantage of OMNIs, you can point them in the wrong direction (away from the action) and still get good results. The other downside is that there's a distance rolloff, so the drunkard who's half the distance to your mics than the intended source will have a dB advantage over the source. And for larger groups, if you're not further away from the group than the group is occupying real-estate wise, you could get an odd balance of instruments. Which you can compensate for by getting some elevation so everything is equidistant from the mics. But not a cure all as some groups that have say Clarinets pointed at the floor and Tubas pointed to the sky.
 
brother rat said:
what are your strategies for placement/direction when recording with omnis, either single or in pairs? Do you aim them straight upward? at the source? away from the source? etc. Post some of your techniques for various applications.
Click to expand...

brother rat,

One of the advantages of omnis is that they are very forgiving as to placement.

When doing live sound I often just hang a 635 over the top of the cabinet by the cord with the mic falling right in front of the speaker facing down. Works great.

In a studio I would probably put them on a stand like I would a cardiod.

For recording stereo I either use a spaced pair or a Jecklin disk. The Jecklin disc gives a good stereo image and so does a spaced pair out in front of a band or a choir. In a studio, not so much on the stereo image. I usually place the mics in the room trying to find the large spaces between the amps or instruments. I never worry about the drums except not to be too close to them. They will be there without a doubt. Of course, in the studio I will more often multi track the band and pick each mic for the job it's doing. Still sometimes you just want to set up a pair of mics and play music.

Omnis make good overheads but again as a spaced pair. Since omnis have very limited directionality and only in the higher frequencies if they are within a foot of each other you will end up with two nearly identical tracks. Basically you think about distance from the instruments rather than the direction they are pointing like you do with cardiods.

Recording acoustic instruments omnis can be placed very close to the instruments. Less than an inch if the musician can deal with it.

Condenser omnis are great. I love them too. But like any condensers not so good for live shows or field recording, especially outdoors. In the studio for acoustic instruments, piano, drum overheads, they are perfect.

John already addressed the piano question. This is what I did when I recorded Suzanne Michell playing her baby grand in her teaching studio. I had her play and I walked around the room listening carefully. When I found the magic spot I put my jecklin disk there with two Naiant omnis. Pianos are large instruments with sound coming from everywhere so cardiod mics can give unpredictable results. Omnis are much safer.

Now when I'm recording a live show in a coffeehouse or a restaurant I never use omnis. I get way too much audience noise. I have a couple of Superlux condenser mics that have the best rear rejection of anything I've ever used and I use them in an x-y pair. Even then I'm careful about corner tables, etc. Every venue is different and every audience is different. I don't mind audience noise on a live recording I just don't like it louder than the music.

I actually think of a pair of omnis as the natural starting point when recording music. They're inexpensive, sound very natural, safe and easy. When you need to move on from a pair of omnis you will know why and have a good idea what you need.

It seems that nowadays everyone wants to start to learn recording with a Chinese condenser mic because they read condensers are best and the Chinese mics are what they can afford. I really think this discourages many recording hobbyists because these mics are really difficult to use, sensitive to the environment, touchy as to placement, etc. If they put their bucks into a pair of used omnis they would get more listenable results right off the bat and enjoy it a lot more.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
thanks for all the info. i appreciate it.
right now i am working with just a handful of cardioid dynamics and my next step will probably be a pair of omnis. it's kinda tough to find decent dynamic omnis. as you said, the chinese condensers seem to be the hot ticket right now.

any other suggestions besides the mics already mentioned in this thread?
 
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brother rat said:
thanks for all the info. i appreciate it.
right now i am working with just a handful of cardioid dynamics and my next step will probably be a pair of omnis. it's kinda tough to find decent dynamic omnis. as you said, the chinese condensers seem to be the hot ticket right now.

any other suggestions besides the mics already mentioned in this thread?
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One of the nicest dynamic omnis was the Sennheiser MD 211 - discontinued many years now, though.

Unfortunately, most dynamic omnis nowadays seem to be designed as omni reporter mics rather than a good general-purpose omni.
 
Love my 4050s, they sound great as a spaced pair for drums as "overheads" or singly as a room mic about 10-12 feet out and looking down at the kit.
 
i have a pair of cardioid dynamics that i like, but don't often use. what about modifying them to be omnis by closing the rear vents? bad idea? i could use tape or something so it's reversible later.
 
brother rat said:
thanks for all the info. i appreciate it.
right now i am working with just a handful of cardioid dynamics and my next step will probably be a pair of omnis. it's kinda tough to find decent dynamic omnis. as you said, the chinese condensers seem to be the hot ticket right now.

any other suggestions besides the mics already mentioned in this thread?
Click to expand...

brother rat,

Condenser omnis are fine for studio use. I like my Naiant's and they are several generations back. These are wonderful mics and very cheap brand new.

For dynamic omnis I go vintage. The Realistic 1070s (b, c, or d) are always for sale on ebay and can be had for $30 a pair. The 1070d version costs the most because of the magic word Shure on the label but Shure made them all in Mexico for Radio Shack and I can't tell the difference. I tried one 1070a but it was made in Taiwan and had the polarity reversed. There are also just some 1070s with no letter. So stick with the b,c, or d. The bs are gray and the cs and ds are black.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
brother rat said:
i have a pair of cardioid dynamics that i like, but don't often use. what about modifying them to be omnis by closing the rear vents? bad idea? i could use tape or something so it's reversible later.
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brother rat,

I'm clueless on this one. I have read that when harmonica players cup a cardiod dynamic mic they turn it into an omni. And the vents do tune the cardiod pattern. Anyone else got any info on this idea? Nothing's to crazy to try.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
brother rat said:
i have a pair of cardioid dynamics that i like, but don't often use. what about modifying them to be omnis by closing the rear vents? bad idea? i could use tape or something so it's reversible later.
Click to expand...

Yes, it *is* a bad idea.

The diaphragm tension is different between omnis and directional mics. and the damping and voicing of the mic. is based on its polar-pattern.
 
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