Lonely 'Gainst The Rail

robgreen

no face
Morning all, I'd love some fresh ears on this one. It's a pretty simple tune, so I think I need to be spot on with the timing and the balance of the parts. I've now heard it far too many times to know. There are quite a few fundamentally harsh elements which I've tried to tame - but I'm not sure whether this is successful or not. Also, does the arrangement hold interest?

On the flipside, I'm confident for the first time in a long time that there are no vocal issues...

Version 1:


Updated Mix:


Thanks :)
 
Last edited:
I would say you need to bring the vocals up a bit, I could barely hear them. :) Hey really lovely tune, super chilled. Kept me interested for sure. Did you play the harmonica yourself? Is it a harmonica? I like the variation of instruments, and the water in the background. I personally am very impressed by the composition. Gives the feeling of being outdoors in the sunshine (not in England obviously, we don't really get sunshine do we?) having a nice relaxed time with your mates, lying in the grass getting stoned kind of vibe. I'm not sure that's what you were going for but that's what I feel like doing now. :D
 
Love the in-time delay. Nice touch there. The fadeout at 1:06 is a little abrupt and unnatural. That first harmonica note is kind of shrill, the rest not so bad. I'm not crazy about the "percussion". Sounds like you're slapping an empty suitcase. I like the overall arrangement and melody. Pretty good overall. Tame the harmonica and do something else with that percussion and I think it's good.
 
Whattya mean no vocal issues?? I think you've got to turn them way up!! :)

Really nice relaxing tune. I agree with Greg about the percussion sounds, but really don't know what to suggest without taking away from the feel of the song. Anything stronger would change the nice mood you've got going.

I don't like the rain. Mind you, I never really like added soundbites to any tune, they always come across as gimmicky to me. With this one, I get what you're doing and it might actually work if the rain soundbite had more depth to it. I find it sounds weak and thin and I almost didn't recognize it as rain; more like a bath running in the background. This is part of the reason why I don't like soundbites. You gotta really make sure it sounds like rain and not something else.

HTH,
 
Hey rob - I won't lie and say that I wasn't a little disappointed not to hear a more song-like song with vocals and stuff, but this is nice. Very pastoral. I liked the verb/room on the harmonica...can you talk a little bit about how that was captured? Have you used that instrument before in songs? I don't remember...

I didn't mind the percussion or the rain. I've listened to this many times already since you posted and I don't have any mix critiques myself. I'll be listening again for sure.
 
I would say you need to bring the vocals up a bit, I could barely hear them. :) Hey really lovely tune, super chilled. Kept me interested for sure. Did you play the harmonica yourself? Is it a harmonica? I like the variation of instruments, and the water in the background. I personally am very impressed by the composition. Gives the feeling of being outdoors in the sunshine (not in England obviously, we don't really get sunshine do we?) having a nice relaxed time with your mates, lying in the grass getting stoned kind of vibe. I'm not sure that's what you were going for but that's what I feel like doing now. :D

Honestly, if you could hear the lyrics they'd change your life. They're that good!

Thanks a lot frits - the feeling of being out in the country relaxing with friends is good enough for me. I had a soundtrack for a road trip in my head, so close enough and if it makes you want to lie out in the grass getting stoned then that's good enough for me :D

It is a harmonica yes, and I did play it myself. The only thing that's sampled is the rain, which is genuine Manchester rain recorded by pointing a microphone out the window on a day I thought it would never ever be dry again...

Glad you liked - thanks a lot for the listen :)

Love the in-time delay. Nice touch there. The fadeout at 1:06 is a little abrupt and unnatural. That first harmonica note is kind of shrill, the rest not so bad. I'm not crazy about the "percussion". Sounds like you're slapping an empty suitcase. I like the overall arrangement and melody. Pretty good overall. Tame the harmonica and do something else with that percussion and I think it's good.

Cool, thanks a lot Greg - good critique from you as usual and I'm glad that it worked for you for the most part. I'll look again at the first fade out and taming the harmonica while retaining the 'cut through' was one of the big challenges of the mix.

You're not a million miles away with the 'empty suitcase' comments. That section needed something to underpin the acoustic, but I couldn't figure what. I've no drum kit, no proper percussion to speak of and I don't think programmed drums would ever fit in a mix like that. I thought something like a cajon might fit if I had one, but improvising with the only thing to hand I just bashed out a rhythm on the back of my acoustic.

I actually think the rhythm works pretty well building a base for the acoustic line, but the dynamics are pretty basic to say the least - so sonically leaves something to be desired. I'll have a think about my options there and can certainly address the shrillness and fade out easily enough.

Cheers man :cool:
 
Whattya mean no vocal issues?? I think you've got to turn them way up!! :)

Really nice relaxing tune. I agree with Greg about the percussion sounds, but really don't know what to suggest without taking away from the feel of the song. Anything stronger would change the nice mood you've got going.

I don't like the rain. Mind you, I never really like added soundbites to any tune, they always come across as gimmicky to me. With this one, I get what you're doing and it might actually work if the rain soundbite had more depth to it. I find it sounds weak and thin and I almost didn't recognize it as rain; more like a bath running in the background. This is part of the reason why I don't like soundbites. You gotta really make sure it sounds like rain and not something else.

HTH,

Heh heh, do you reckon I need something other than rain to get something more rain sounding? Like in films where they slam phone books to make punching sounds etc. Maybe I can beef up the rain somehow - I like how it bookends the song, but I don't want it to sound like I'm running a bath :facepalm:

As I said on the response to Greg's comment, I'll have another think about the percussion. If I can get hold of something with a little more depth to play the same rhythm I think it will improve things on that part considerably. I did worry whether it would make it sound a little amateurish. Thanks for your nice comments about the overall feel and cheers for listening Chili :)

Hey rob - I won't lie and say that I wasn't a little disappointed not to hear a more song-like song with vocals and stuff, but this is nice. Very pastoral. I liked the verb/room on the harmonica...can you talk a little bit about how that was captured? Have you used that instrument before in songs? I don't remember...

I didn't mind the percussion or the rain. I've listened to this many times already since you posted and I don't have any mix critiques myself. I'll be listening again for sure.

Hey Pete, I figured it was time to do another instrumental. I've always really enjoyed the likes of Godspeed You Black Emperor, Ennio Morricone and Calexico with their instrumentals that have the space to breathe and evolve, but seem to have been more drawn into vocal stuff recently. For me it was fun to work on something again without the pressure to tie it down to verse-chorus etc. and still retain cohesiveness/interest throughout. There'll be some more song-like stuff along next I think.

I'm glad you liked the feel though and nothing leapt out as out of place. Yeah, I think it's the first time I've posted anything up with the harmonica. I wanted to get a bit more expression in it and play with more vibrato - but I didn't manage to get a good take playing that way the other weekend when I was recording it and went with what I had. In terms of capture, I wasn't getting much joy from my sm58 which I use for pretty much everything - it just seemed a bit brash. Then I remembered that when I first started out I'd use a Peavey PVI2 that seemed to pick up the harmonica fine in the past. I dug that out and although I probably wouldn't use it for vocals, it softened some of the highs and suited the sound better. I just close miked it to pick up some of the graininess and after tracking added some saturation, gave a wide boost to the lows/wide cut to the highs, a light compression and some reverb. I use a reverb plugin called Ambience by Smartelectronix which I like a lot because it has two sliders to boost the wet and dry volume respectively. It means that you can set quite a long tail on the reverb, but then turn down the wet volume/up the dry volume until you reach a balance where you get the richness of the verb without the wetness/stuck in a metal container sound.

I'm pretty happy with how the bass turned out on this as well - it's nice and fat without being too overbearing - maybe the sparseness of the mix has meant I didn't have to cut too much to accommodate the kick or other elements that often make it muddy.

Thanks for your thoughts as always Pete :cool:
 
That's cool. Thanks for elaborating. I don't generally like harmonicas too much, but I thought this sounded pretty nice. I wouldn't have guess that you processed it that way.

Yeah, I totally get the metal container sound sometimes with software reverbs, despite a wide range of very specific controls available to me with each effect - user error! This sounded metal-free. Nice.
 
I thought in general it was good.

I hear what greg was saying about the fade at 1:06.

I think there were a couple of little timing issues around 1:34 - 1:38. The parts didn't gel tightly there.
 
Yep. the 1.06 does need fixing - just tail it across the gap.
The perfect percussion instrument for this - bohdran!
I'd've liked it if the panned foley elemnt at the end was at a slower pace to match the song's tempo.
Nice stuff - lots of good ideas thrown at you.
I'd throw a de esser across the vox.
 
I thought in general it was good.

I hear what greg was saying about the fade at 1:06.

I think there were a couple of little timing issues around 1:34 - 1:38. The parts didn't gel tightly there.

Thanks very much for the listen M3 - I saw your comment last night, but then the board seemed to crash. I knew exactly where you were talking about with the timing issues without listening back - they drove me nuts when I was mixing because I struggled to work out whether it was the guitar, bass or percussion that was knocking it off kilter. I had a quick look at the mix this morning and have started to address it now.

I've sorted the fade out too - part of the problem was that I caught another note right at the end of the 1:06 tail which soured it, so I was a bit harsh with the fade. I've got another take that I dropped in there instead and tweaked a few other settings.

Cheers man :)

Yep. the 1.06 does need fixing - just tail it across the gap.
The perfect percussion instrument for this - bohdran!
I'd've liked it if the panned foley elemnt at the end was at a slower pace to match the song's tempo.
Nice stuff - lots of good ideas thrown at you.
I'd throw a de esser across the vox.

Yeah, the feedback has been really helpful. I think I'm nearly there with a remix. I'll have a think about the car at the end - see whether I can slow it while keeping the pitch.

Just had to google a bohran, there's no way I'd be able to play one of those :D

I have re-visited the percussion though and think I've got something much better sounding with some processing. Less empty luggage like anyway. Will post up soon. Thanks a lot for your thoughts ray :thumbs up:
 
It is a harmonica yes, and I did play it myself.

You did a really good job on that harmonica. I find it hard to get a good recording of it, so I found it really interesting to read how you got that smooth sound with a £40 mic and the effects you chose. Ta for explaining that.

The only thing that's sampled is the rain, which is genuine Manchester rain recorded by pointing a microphone out the window on a day I thought it would never ever be dry again...

Yeh, I know the feeling. I actually thought it was a waterfall. :eek: Typical girl, getting all romantic and shiii. :D
 
I agree with Chili about the water sounds. I think that the mood is set well enough without the added noise. I like what the harmonica is doing, but it's a little harsh and distracts me from the calming effect of the piece. The percussion is thin sounding, but I think it fits well enough. The arrangement was interesting enough to keep me listening, which is rare for slow instrumental to do.
 
You did a really good job on that harmonica. I find it hard to get a good recording of it, so I found it really interesting to read how you got that smooth sound with a £40 mic and the effects you chose. Ta for explaining that.

Hey, you're welcome. Maybe it's because I've never had expensive equipment to know the difference, maybe it's because I tend to record cleaner inputs or maybe I just have low horizons, but I find that with some patience and a lot of trial and error that I can generally get something workable. It's a metal Hohner harmonica by the way - I don't know what you've tried in the past, but the plastic ones just sound crap in my experience.

I agree with Chili about the water sounds. I think that the mood is set well enough without the added noise. I like what the harmonica is doing, but it's a little harsh and distracts me from the calming effect of the piece. The percussion is thin sounding, but I think it fits well enough. The arrangement was interesting enough to keep me listening, which is rare for slow instrumental to do.

Thanks a lot for listening Seraph, I'm glad you enjoyed it and it won you over despite being a rare thing for the type of music. I'm working on an update at the moment with some tweaks to the harmonica and some more processing to probably disguise the origins of the percussion and fill it out a little. Regarding the rain, I'm probably too wedded to it to lose, but I'm thinking about how I can make it sound less like a running bath/waterfall or whatever. Cheers for your thoughts man and welcome to the forum :)
 
sounds nice rob. the guitar tone is especially nice and you have come a long way from the first recordings i heard here.
the harmonica sounds too tinny to me and very thin.
maybe if its a £2 one that's just how it sounds. i know cause i have one and have recorded it and it sounds the same. maybe roll off some high end.
to the rain, you have to record it in stereo and pan it wide wide so it's out of the way.
haunting melody that is still in me head.
 
Thanks a lot Manslick, that's really nice of you to say - I do feel like I'm still at a stage where every mix is better than the last one and it's due in no small part to the help I've had in here. I think you need a strong central theme to make instrumentals work, so I'm glad it paid off in that regard.

Re. the harmonica, I take your point about rolling off a little more high end and I've done that on the updated mix. The tone itself is pretty close to what I had in mind though - it's a pretty good harmonica, but when you're playing single notes higher up it, I think you're always fighting harsh tones to some extent. I wanted it to cut through the rest of the sounds and Ennio Morricone's 'Man With a Harmonica' was probably a reference point I had in mind. I don't think it stands up too badly against that particular piece.

Regarding the rain recording, I think that's really good advice. I posted up an update on soundcloud before I read your comments this morning & I'm away for the weekend now but I'll give that a go when I'm back home. Really useful feedback as ever, thanks mate :)

Here's the new mix, original still on first post for now. I did a lot of work on the percussion which I think represents an improvement, fixed some timing issues, addressed the abrupt end at 1.06, tweaked the EQ on the harmonica and played with the rain a little bit. Any feedback on whether this all works better would be much appreciated. cheers all

 
yeah, that's cool. There's still a pause but it makes sense in terms of a note dying away before blowing the next one in. Harmonica sounds much smoother.
Good stuff!
 
Nice tune, robgreen. If this was my mix, I'd be putting the EQ and compressor on the master bus to see if some gentle tweaks there made any positive difference. Endgame, in other words.
 
this new mix sounds better, especially the harmonica. guitar tones are better than i remember and panning the rain off center is better too.

so whats the story on the title?
 
Back
Top