Live Performance Mic With Low Proximity Effect

B

bgavin

New member
Other than going to an omni, are there any cardioid types with lower proximity effect than the typical SM58?

Almost without exception, every live artist seems to "eat" the mic, and this gives the characteristic huge proximity effect. I remember reading some of the E-V mics get around this, but I have no experience.

Anybody?
 
Have a listen to either the Sennheiser E845 or E865 they have been designed to roll off the Bass which limits the proxy effect, the downside of this is when the mics are used at distances of say more than 100mm they can sound a bit thin.
 
AKG used to make one called the d-3600. It's long since discontinued, but they pop up on ebay from time to time. It's a dual-diaphragm dynamic and has almost 0 proximity effect. Also, if you could find an old Electrovoice RE-15.

The only thing I can think of that you could get new is the Electrovoice RE-20 which will set you back a bit, but it's an outstanding investment in the long run.
 
Get an EV RE16 or RE18. (can be also listed as RE-16 or RE-18)

Leave out "Electro-Voice", "Electrovoice" or "EV". That way all three spellings will be found, otherwise some can be missed. Simply use the model names listed above when searching ebay.

If you're a "P-popper" (like me), they'll be safer to use than the RE15.
Plus the foam protects the interior element better with live use over
a long period of time vs. the RE15.

Chris
 
Thanks Chris,

It is my understanding that E-V offered something or other that cancelled the proximity effect.

My needs are for something that doesn't get fat up close, nor thin out at a distance (read: omni), but still offers some directional control against feedback in a live environment.
 
chessrock said:
The only thing I can think of that you could get new is the Electrovoice RE-20 which will set you back a bit, but it's an outstanding investment in the long run.
Click to expand...

Plus if a fan gets out of line you can beat them to death with an RE20.

:D

War
 
Believe it or not, I use a Shure SM7-B live with excellent results. The proximity is there, but minimal compared to most stage mics. It's not feedback prone at all, and it doubles as a very good recording mic for singing and voiceovers.-Richie
 
My Beyer Soundstar M400 is supposed to be Beyer's clone of the SM7-B.

I've only used it once live, so don't have much experience yet. I'll have to see how it works for mic-eaters.

My question was based on watching all the performers at a weekend Celtic faire. They all eat the mic, and the huge proximity effect sounds awful.
 
Glad to help.

BTW the sweet spot on a SM7 is larger, though the Soundstar is of course a hand held.

IMHO if they're "mic eaters" with inexperienced technique, the EV's would be a wiser choice vs. the Beyer. The proximity of that Beyer is like its cousin, the M88, and the RE16 (or RE18) will be more forgiving of anyone singing off-axis.

Chris
 
bgavin said:
My question was based on watching all the performers at a weekend Celtic faire. They all eat the mic, and the huge proximity effect sounds awful.
Click to expand...

There is no need for it to sound that bad it is all down to the FOH engineer (many of whom are sadly deaf)
 
Multiple singers, moving back and forth between eating the mic and backing off, makes for a very busy FOH trying to compensate.
 
Yes, many of the Electrovoice mics have the "Variable-D" design which cancels much of the proximity effect. You can recognize this design by the vents down the body of the mic.

I've found the Audix OM-5, the Sennheiser MD 431, Beyerdynamic M500, and Beyerdynamic M69 to be pretty good at minimizing proximity effect as well.
 
bgavin said:
Multiple singers, moving back and forth between eating the mic and backing off, makes for a very busy FOH trying to compensate.
Click to expand...

Thats what they get paid for, but many just sit back and try to look cool eating their Big Macs (not possible). It can be done but you have to care!
 
eat it!

As a FOH guy I'd really much prefer singers to eat the mic, unless they are really strong singers with good technique. This is rare on the club level, even in "music city" where I work. Since I am high passing (low cutting, whatever) the vocal mics as well as making a few other subtle eq moves (usually small cuts to clear things up), the proximity effect seems to at least give me some signal to work with.

The worst are the really loud punk or shoegazer bands with singers that either whisper or think it is cool to sing "over" the mic instead of into it.

If you are doing your own sound of course all bets are off!
 
Ape32 said:
The worst are the really loud punk or shoegazer bands with singers that either whisper or think it is cool to sing "over" the mic instead of into it.
Click to expand...

And then we get the blame for a shit sound, and do they listen when we try to give them advice ???

Do not forget the type that cups the end of the mic in his hands cause it looks cool (whats that whistling noise I can hear).
 
bgavin said:
Multiple singers, moving back and forth between eating the mic and backing off, makes for a very busy FOH trying to compensate.
Click to expand...

Then again a good singer moving will control their volume by moving back and forth which makes for a very content FOH.

I find that amateur singers tend to eat the mic because their voice sounds thin in the monitors.
 
Man, I almost told this low grade singer that he needed to learn to sing into the mic last weekend. It is a fine line because they tend to be so insecure (singers) that I'd be afraid to upset them, which isn't my job at all. On the other hand the average band gets done and they pretty much just want their egos stroked, which I don't do either.

Live vocals are hard to deal with sometimes - a bad singer is a bad singer - I'm not going to bury them in the mix, it isn't up to me to judge them.
 
Ape32 said:
On the other hand the average band gets done and they pretty much just want their egos stroked, which I don't do either.

Live vocals are hard to deal with sometimes - a bad singer is a bad singer - I'm not going to bury them in the mix, it isn't up to me to judge them.
Click to expand...

I do the sound at a local venue that organises monthly Showcase nights where new bands get the chance to perform live sometimes for the first time.

One of the things I try to do is give them a little talk in the dressing room about basic do's & dont's when thay get on stage. One of my favourite ones is when they spend 10 minutes tuning before each song.

Although I try not to ever "lose it" during these sessions I find it difficult when confronted with people with enormous Ego's and very little talent. The annoying thing is these are the guys who will probably go on to have some success (did someone mention Oasis ).
 
I understand the RE20 is a large mic.

If anybody has an RE20 and SM57, etc, would they please post a nice side-by-side photo? I'm curious to see how much larger the RE20 is.

I also understand the RE series mics are sensitive to shock noises, and best suited in a suspension mount. This would make a large stage mic even larger.
 
what about a md 421....?

Not a singers first choice due to it's bulky nature but non the less just as effective. The 5 position roll off lets you tailor the singers voice and control proximity effect.



" a brumby isn't a donkey....it's a midget horse."
 
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