Life Twice in Georgia...come check it out

JKestle

JKestle

New member
Newbie Alert! I've been reading here at HR for close to two years. I have posted here and there but for the most part you good people posting on this site do a great job covering everything a newbie like me needs to know.

I hope to start posting more, and I think the mixing clinic is the best way to start. It shows what I might have to offer (depending on the nature of the feedback I hear), and gives everyone a chance to see the fruits of their labour, as I've learned so much from all of you over the past year or so (a special thanks to Mr. Gerst).

Well then, here it is...Life Twice in Georgia.
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=4137&alid=-1

Tracking Info:

Drums: 3 mic technique - 1 dynamic over the head of the drummer, SM57 on snare 1" up 1" in, apex 125 large dynamic on kick off centre pointing directly at the beater.

Bass: Direct via ADP1 DI (going to retrack with brighter strings)

Lead Guitar: Marshall "Legend" head through 2 10" celestion greenbacks, SM57 0 degree's slightly off center.

Rythym Guitar: Fender DeVille through 2 10" celestion greenbacks,SM57 0 degree's 2" in from outer edge.

Vox: SM58 (and yes, I purposly put that distortion on in the mixing process).

All of the above had the following chain: Berry MX 1804x (no laughing) > Delta44 > CEP2.0 > YSM1p monitors > my untreated room > my ears.

Note 1: All signals were taken out of the berry through inserts.

Note 2: All Mixing was done in CEP2.0. I tried very hard not to make it too loud/distorted, but this is becomming a skill in itself these days. So if you think its too loud (compressed) be sure to include it in your comments.

Rules:

I ask everyone, if you reply with negative feedbck, balance it with something positive and vice versa.

The purpose of this post is to uncover my weaknesses and capitalize on my strengths. At the moment I don't know what either of these are, so I'm asking for your help. This is the only help I cannot get in the forums.

Thanks for reading this far, and if you dont reply I would to thank you (YES YOU!) for all great discussions and help you've already given me (even in the mic forum...its still the best on the net by far).

See you on the flip side,
Jonathan Kestle
Hitchhikin' Gurus
"A lesson in awe-inspiring feed back"
 
Very good job. No nits at all with the performances.

On the mix, it's pretty well balanced to me...I think the vocal could come up about 2db throughout. It sounds good, but it's mixed more like another instrument, and while it's not low in the mix, it's not on top enough to make out every single word. Also, with the guitars, if they're gonna' be that dry (which is fine), I think you need to give a little nudge in the mids of the git tracks to keep them from getting woofy and walking all over the bass.

Those are the kinds of things that I would only notice and/or point out in a setting like this...I could easily listen to this without hearing anything wrong at all, because I don't think there's anything wrong with it...could maybe be a little bit bigger if you got some more separation between the vocals, gits, and bass...

oh, and it rocks, lol.
 
Thanks for replying chris.

I appreciate your comments very much. The low end is always a chalenge for me, especially with muddy guitars. I never know quite how far to cut the low end on them.

Also, this is a new singer for our band (and our second recording ever), I feel he uses his voice like an instrument in that he does not pronounce every syllabul. I don't know if anyone would understand what he is saying no matter how loud I put him! (i.e. vedder) But I agree that a 2db boost wouldn't hurt.

Concerning further separation....I have the guitars panned L & R at about 2o'clock. I'll try panning a little further but I don't want to loose the levels they are currently at.

Is there a ratio or general guideline on db change when changing from mono to stereo?
 
JKestle said:
Is there a ratio or general guideline on db change when changing from mono to stereo?
Click to expand...
There probably is, but you have good ears...charts are for deaf people like me, lol.

Actually, the seperation I was talking about wasn't the stereo field...I mean, I liked the current split on the guitars just fine. On the guits, if you're using CEP 2.0, then you have a very primitive Parametric track EQ, right? Try this...on the guitar tracks, make a 6db cut centered at 315Hz with a Q of 1.3 (about an octave). Immediately, you should hear the bass and the vocal pop out better, but move the center around a bit to see if you can get that optimum balance of warmth in the guitars with clairty/seperation from the bass. I usually end up with my final cuts being no more than 3db, and I don't think you need more than that...they're very very close...there's just some slight masking going on in the low mids somewhere, and 315Hz is always a great danger zone to start with.
 
JKestle said:
I feel he uses his voice like an instrument in that he does not pronounce every syllabul. I don't know if anyone would understand what he is saying no matter how loud I put him! (i.e. vedder)
Click to expand...
You know, I almost didn't comment on it for that very reason...I can tell he's a mealy mouthed singer, LOL!! But A/B'ing it with a couple of tunes tells me that the vocal could come up a tad...from the sound of this mix, you know when too much is too much, lol. If you turn it up 1 db and it sounds like it's just DOMINATING the mix, then you had it perfect before :D
 
chrisharris said:
There probably is, but you have good ears...charts are for deaf people like me, lol.

Actually, the seperation I was talking about wasn't the stereo field...I mean, I liked the current split on the guitars just fine. On the guits, if you're using CEP 2.0, then you have a very primitive Parametric track EQ, right? Try this...on the guitar tracks, make a 6db cut centered at 315Hz with a Q of 1.3 (about an octave). Immediately, you should hear the bass and the vocal pop out better, but move the center around a bit to see if you can get that optimum balance of warmth in the guitars with clairty/seperation from the bass. I usually end up with my final cuts being no more than 3db, and I don't think you need more than that...they're very very close...there's just some slight masking going on in the low mids somewhere, and 315Hz is always a great danger zone to start with.
Click to expand...


OK, I see what you mean. So by doing this I won't necessarily have to turn up the vox that 2db mentioned earlier. Also, this would be the same as boosting the guitar mids correct?

I'm going to try this and replace the nowhere posting today.

thanks again
 
JKestle said:
Also, this would be the same as boosting the guitar mids correct?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it would replace that suggestion. Obviously, it's not boosting anything, but it should give the guitars a louder apparent volume without turning up a single thing...and if the guitars are the culprit, then both the bass and the vocals should be a little clearer. Again, this is a good mix...don't go nuts, lol.
 
Revised.

I wish some gurus would listen to this, lol. I'm not one. At any rate, it was a good mix to start with, and I personally like it better now. I'm one guy, lol. what do YOU think?
 
bump...oops!

just fishing for more bites.
anyone else care to comment?

come on people tear it up!
 
Can you make it downloadable as an mp3? I can never play the .asx from that site... just doesn't work once media player opens up. If I can get it to work, I'll gladly give it a listen and comment. BTW, I respect your thankful words about the forum and pleasant attitude. You seem like a really cool guy. Cant wait to hear the mix.
 
mattamatta said:
Can you make it downloadable as an mp3? I can never play the .asx from that site... just doesn't work once media player opens up. If I can get it to work, I'll gladly give it a listen and comment. BTW, I respect your thankful words about the forum and pleasant attitude. You seem like a really cool guy. Cant wait to hear the mix.
Click to expand...

Try downloading the song, it is in MP3 format....not .asx, I'm not even sure what that is.

Nowhere Radio and WinMedia9 do not seem to get along very well. Downloading the MP3 to your computer is a sure way to hear the mix.

If that doesn't work, please let me know.

That goes for everyone! If you cannot stream files from Nowhere Radio, please let me know what player you are using and what error message appears. I'm really curious to know if it is just WinMedia9, or other programs as well.

thanks, i am looking forward to further comments and input on this mix.
 
I see, it let me download it for the revised version. Before I had only tried the original, and it wont let me download it on that one, but the revised works.

First thing I notice is that the bass is overwhelming coming through on my system (computer speakers, although they sound pretty good, thx certified type ones)

Sounds like it's not just the bass guitar, but also the kick drum and maybe even guitar... sounds like some sorta key sound maybe? For example, toward the end, after 2mins or so, the continuous low end hum is just really resonant and boomy sounding, at least on my speakers, and they're generally pretty clear and precise sounding.

So that's the first thing I'd fix, try to get that more under control.. Start by bringing down the bass some, and get rid of as much low end as you can. Everything but kick drum and bass, do a hi-pass as high as you can get away with. You could even cut some low out of the thigns like bass and kick drum; when I "master" my stuff, I cut out everything below 35-40 or even 50 hz sometimes, even on stuff I consider bass heavy.... I just dont find it that necessary, and it muddies things up.


Then, the next thing I notice is that the guitar seems rather far back and thin... It'd help if you could make it more present in the mix, and spread it out a bit for depth and stereo image.... anything that will widen it up. I love pseudostereo plugins when there's just one guitar track, I have one I like for VST systems from PSP Audio (I relaly like all of their stuff, for the most part), and I used to use one that I think was from MDA (I believe that was the acronym... maxum/maxim/maximum digital audio I think).... I'm not sure what kind of thigns are available in CEP though... you could try anything like a short roomy reverb for some early reflections, or copy the track, pan the original and copy right and left, and delay one by a few samples, although with that method you lose some mono compatibility, as they will be slightly out of phase.

Or if you have more than one gu itar track, pan them right and left, or just double track from scratch.

Also you'll want to bring up the level, and possibly use either eq, or mic placement when tracking to give it more presence... it just sounds sort of stale and far back, and would add a lot to the mix if it was more present.

I know you used a mono overhead (which is what I do because of a lack of mics), so if you could use any stereo sim or other widening method, it helps it fill out the edges of the mix a lot better. I use stereo sim on my mono overhead to make it sound more like the wide full, yet not thick stereo image I'm looking for.

Snare sounds pretty good... might try a tad of/more reverb on it if you want, but it also might be better left how is, I'd ha fta hear it in context.

Vocals sound pretty cool, I thought I heard some sorta phasery effects on there at one point? Whatever it was I was hearing, gave me sort of a hendrix vibe, which worked pretty well for the song.

Song has a pretty cool rockin' feel to it, not a bad job.

Main thing that bothers me is the bass and low end, it just makes it hard to listen, cuz it sounds sort of like somebody's 500W subwoofer cranking out 30hz a few doors away.... Also, there might be some stuff around 100-200hz that's making it sound really boomy.

Other than that, anything you can do to widen up cymbals and make guitar wider and just generally more of an important element of the mix would help, although that's easier said than done.

Nice job. I'd be happy to take a listen on any future revisions, or anything else basically...that's why I read these forums in the first place! =)

Good luck, have fun!
 
"I'd be happy to take a listen on any future revisions, or anything else basically...that's why I read these forums in the first place! =)"

thanks for your time, and great comments...

The low end issue is always a really hard to deal with for me, probably because I can never hear the problem. I have a horrile listening environment (hopefully temporary :o ).

The low end issue is definately the kick or bass. But I'll take the tip and tune the high pass on the other elemnts as tightly as I can get away with.

Where it breaks down and the feedback starts, miscellaneous samples (most likely some sort of spoken word) will be inserted over it. The continuous "hum" your hear is a looped feedback. There are two different octaves of looped guitar feedback panned hard left and right. The low end feedback is on the right. As I'm writing this I'm realizing it probably needs to be put down the center, relieved of its subsonics, and cut it 3 or 4db.

The vocals are double tracked (the old fashion way) for the chorus. I also put some digital distortion on it to dirty it up.
If you can't beat'em, might as well join'em.

I'll let you know when there's a new mix posted, thanks again for taking the time.
 
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