Levels for recording guitar
- Thread starter Jay C
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Farview
Well-known member
That's a good recording level for just about anything. You don't have much control over the peaks, and they don't matter at all as long as it doesn't clip, but the average power should be around -18dbfs.
It has nothing to do with how may tracks you use. Recording level is always independent of mix level and monitoring level.
It has nothing to do with how may tracks you use. Recording level is always independent of mix level and monitoring level.
I personally pay very little attention to numbers. I know internet wisdom tells you to follow all sorts of rules, but I just make my shit come in somewhere around -10 and don't worry about trying to target some semi arbitrary number. I'm nowhere near clipping, not even scaring it, so I'm good to go.
Shoot for reasonable record levels-- doesn't matter much which instrument. Peaks at -18 is a lot of head room. Not that it's so low that it'll cause quality or noise issues at the a/d and conversion -typically. (consider how quiet are your room noises, or noise levels of what you're recording etc)
As you add more tracks yes the combine level in a mix, but that can be dealt with in the mix. In other words I wouldn't think 'this might have lots of tracks so I'll change my record levels.
As you add more tracks yes the combine level in a mix, but that can be dealt with in the mix. In other words I wouldn't think 'this might have lots of tracks so I'll change my record levels.
There ya go. I watch numbers', other than that.. exactly!
Dudes, Dudettes'.. Do you realize how incredibly lucky we are and how easy good 24bit has made this for us..?
..Just saying
fritsthegirl
Taste of home
I go mostly for greens, too much red is ugly, but some yellow and orange is generally OK. Quite simple I am. 
I think Armistace told me to peak at -12, maybe it was -10 after my first recording was too hot. I try to stay under that...mostly. Sometimes going over a touch, I can't hear that it's so wrong so I just go with it if it sounds OK.
I think Armistace told me to peak at -12, maybe it was -10 after my first recording was too hot. I try to stay under that...mostly. Sometimes going over a touch, I can't hear that it's so wrong so I just go with it if it sounds OK.
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
Man am I stupid. I've been stuck in analogue mode this whole time - trying to get the strongest signal possible. So I guess the bad news is I'm an idiot. The good news is I can improve recording quality on my next project.
The good news is that unless you were clipping before, you probably won't notice the difference unless maybe your plug-ins are programmed to work at certain levels.
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
I am always just below clipping - at least according to Pro Tools on my computer screen. I read an article where the guy seems to think I'm losing quality by pushing it that high.
R
RAMI
Guest
If you're below clipping all the time, then like Greg said, you probably won't notice a difference, unless all those tracks combined are clipping your master, which is sort of related but not. The point of my run-on sentence is, if nothing's clipping, you're ok, but it's good pracice to keep levels lower than "close to clipping".
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
This guy seems to think being near clipping on a DAW can create other problems:
Recording Levels And Gain Staging - Harmony Central
Here's where one other difference might come into play: I use a Joe Meek twin Q. I'm constantly tweeking it to make it output a strong signal - probably past the optimal point of low noise for the TwinQ itself (but within reason). If it's OK to be at -15 then I have lot more choices and I don't have to push the pre/make up gain/output so hard.
R
RAMI
Guest
Actually, that's a good point, and I left that out.
(I'm not referring to the article because I haven't read it yet, so maybe he's saying the same thing, or maybe not.)
But the reason "they" say -15 to -18db should be the optimal level has less to do with the digital part of it, and more to do with the analog part of it. If you're levels are high, that could mean that, somewhere along the line, you're pushing a pre-amp, converter or something too hard.
Farview
Well-known member
The main reason to keep the levels lower is to keep from pushing the analog side of the signal chain too hard. This gets confusing because of the sheer amount of different types of equipment that is being made and used. Some of it comes very well with those higher levels (especially interfaces with built in preamps, since the entire system is designed as a unit), some do not ( like your meek).
Any time you are connecting two pieces of equipment together, you need to make sure that the first one is sending the type and level of signal the second piece expects to see at its input. With most interface, line level inputs are designed to give you 15 to 18db of headroom above line level. This is more than enough for most things that aren't drums. The problem is, all the metering everyone has only read the peaks, so it is tough to visualize the average signal level (which is what is actually important when you are trying to keep the preamps from being too stressed).
The bottom line is, when recording at proper levels (line level), the peak levels will not be consistent. this is because a piano has a larger transient than a violin at the same volume. This is normal. If you recorded both of those instruments at the same peak volume, the violin would be much louder than the piano.
So, recording at proper levels, averaging around -18dbfs, is the "proper" thing to do, but not because of anything on the digital side, because that is where the preamps and any other analog outboard equipment wants to be.
Intersample distortion does happen, but its affect is really a non-issue. Especially in a mix. Anything like that, that would happen once or twice a song and last for 1/44,100th of a second is not going to be as big of a deal as your preamps folding up because they are being run too hot.
Any time you are connecting two pieces of equipment together, you need to make sure that the first one is sending the type and level of signal the second piece expects to see at its input. With most interface, line level inputs are designed to give you 15 to 18db of headroom above line level. This is more than enough for most things that aren't drums. The problem is, all the metering everyone has only read the peaks, so it is tough to visualize the average signal level (which is what is actually important when you are trying to keep the preamps from being too stressed).
The bottom line is, when recording at proper levels (line level), the peak levels will not be consistent. this is because a piano has a larger transient than a violin at the same volume. This is normal. If you recorded both of those instruments at the same peak volume, the violin would be much louder than the piano.
So, recording at proper levels, averaging around -18dbfs, is the "proper" thing to do, but not because of anything on the digital side, because that is where the preamps and any other analog outboard equipment wants to be.
Intersample distortion does happen, but its affect is really a non-issue. Especially in a mix. Anything like that, that would happen once or twice a song and last for 1/44,100th of a second is not going to be as big of a deal as your preamps folding up because they are being run too hot.
R
RAMI
Guest
Farview
Well-known member
The rules aren't arbitrary, the only problem is that there is so many different combinations of equipment, you can't really give a good global answer.
If you are using an interface with built in preamps, it is likely that the preamps are designed to be just fine when cranked enough to clip the converters. If you are using outward preamps, they are going to be calibrated for line level and might get weezy trying to get a violin up around clipping into a set of converters that are calibrated for -20dbfs= line level.
What level should I record at? Is almost like asking "how many rpm is it safe to run my engine?". Its not specific enough. If you have a 1969 chevy, the answer is 4500. If you have a crotch rocket, the answer is somewhere closer to 10,000.
If you are using an interface with built in preamps, it is likely that the preamps are designed to be just fine when cranked enough to clip the converters. If you are using outward preamps, they are going to be calibrated for line level and might get weezy trying to get a violin up around clipping into a set of converters that are calibrated for -20dbfs= line level.
What level should I record at? Is almost like asking "how many rpm is it safe to run my engine?". Its not specific enough. If you have a 1969 chevy, the answer is 4500. If you have a crotch rocket, the answer is somewhere closer to 10,000.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Right.....which is why I always find the "record at ______________ dBFS" suggestions a little vague and not always accurate, because then some people are so preoccupied with getting THAT number on their digital gear that they'll mangle their front end if need be just to hit the target.
My view is to set it at the front end to where it sounds good to you and you are not toasting anything...and leave the digital side alone, don't mess with the digital input level....and most times it will be fine.
I mean, if you are driving some mic/pre so hard as to make the digital gear clip....I don't think it will sound good at the front end, so most people won't even get there. I think what people do is boost their *digital* input level, and rarely do they overload their analog front-end.
But yeah...with the prevelance of these all in one pre/mixer/converter boxes....it's hard to know at which stage you are really adjusting your level when there is only a single volume knob on the box.
Also...if it hasn't clipped the digital side....you can simply lower the volume once the track is in the computer and it will be fine. So, if you have your guitar amp/mic/pre all set and you are loving the tone...but the digital meters show -3 dBFS....go for it, and just adjust the track's level once it's in the DAW.
Mo Facta
Farts of Nature
Surely your guitar level should be set in relation to the rest of the mix, provided you have recorded other instruments first?
I like to get my input levels balanced with the rest of the instruments on input. If the peaks from your drums are hitting -12, etc, your guitars will not usually be that high since, in the case of distorted guitars, they generally have a lower crest factor. Clean guitars will have a higher crest factor and therefore will have more dynamic swing.
Anyway. That's how I approach it. Once the initial instruments have been tracked, like drums, (where I'll pay the most attention to input levels) I set subsequent instrument levels by ear because ultimately I want my faders as close to unity as possible come mix time. That is my goal.
Cheers
I like to get my input levels balanced with the rest of the instruments on input. If the peaks from your drums are hitting -12, etc, your guitars will not usually be that high since, in the case of distorted guitars, they generally have a lower crest factor. Clean guitars will have a higher crest factor and therefore will have more dynamic swing.
Anyway. That's how I approach it. Once the initial instruments have been tracked, like drums, (where I'll pay the most attention to input levels) I set subsequent instrument levels by ear because ultimately I want my faders as close to unity as possible come mix time. That is my goal.
Cheers