Let's share some chord progressions w/ dim chords

moley said:
Actually, technically, A+ is A C# E#
F is not the augmented 5th, it's the minor 6th. E# is the augmented 5th.
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Absolutely correct. Correct in every detail. I referred to F as opposed to E# because i just knew somebody would pull me up over it :) Damned if you do, damned if you don't... ;)
BluesMeister, you said "Let's not forget my fellow pluckers that a Diminished chord is a triad and a Diminished 7th is an extended chord". Some say they're the same thing and some say dim is 1 b3 b5 and dim7 is 1 b3 b5 bb7. Personally, I tend to go with your definition - but, it is a slightly contraversial issue
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Trust me Moley - it IS controversial. That's why I alluded to being flamed in my previous post. I still bear the scars...:D

However, let's go back to the major scale (Ionian mode if you prefer). Starting at the 1st, 3rd & 5th notes of the scale you get a major chord. The 2nd, 4th & 6th are a minor.

So the pattern of chords as we go through the scale is:

Major
Minor
Minor
Major
Major
Minor
Diminished

And they're all triads. You could refer to the diminished triad as a minor with flattened 5th - but that's a whole new thread :D

Aint theory wonderful!

--
BluesMeister
 
BluesMeister said:
Absolutely correct. Correct in every detail. I referred to F as opposed to E# because i just knew somebody would pull me up over it :) Damned if you do, damned if you don't... ;)
Trust me Moley - it IS controversial. That's why I alluded to being flamed in my previous post. I still bear the scars...:D

However, let's go back to the major scale (Ionian mode if you prefer). Starting at the 1st, 3rd & 5th notes of the scale you get a major chord. The 2nd, 4th & 6th are a minor.

So the pattern of chords as we go through the scale is:

Major
Minor
Minor
Major
Major
Minor
Diminished

And they're all triads. You could refer to the diminished triad as a minor with flattened 5th - but that's a whole new thread :D

Aint theory wonderful!

--
BluesMeister [/B]
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please start that thread.
 
A1A2 said:
WHERE ARE THE PROGRESSIONS???
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OK then, from the superb album All Things Must Pass these are the chords to Isn't It A Pity

| G* | Gdim7 | Am7 | G |

G*
320033

Gdim7
xx2323

Am7
002213

G
320003

I'm not sure what you'd call that G* chord, the notes are GBDGDG

The pinky anchors on that G and stays there...

And yes 64Firebird, it makes a good Blues turnaround :D

--
BluesMeister
 
Aah, the chord vii: diminshed vs mb5 issue :D

It is kinda related to the dim vs dim7 issue.

Generally, if you extend a dim chord, you get dim7, and if you extend mb5 (i.e. minor w/ b5) you get m7b5.

Let's stick to C major for examples.

Bdim7 = B D F Ab
Bm7b5 = B D F A

Now - chord vii, you will find functions as chord ii in the relative minor - in this example, chord ii in A minor.

Chord ii in a minor key, is essentially mb5 a.k.a. diminished triad. However if you extend chord ii - you'll get m7b5, not dim7. So, chord ii7 in A minor would be Bm7b5, not Bdim7.

And given that you could say that the primary function of chord vii in a major key is as chord ii in the relative minor - you could say it makes sense to call it mb5 rather than dim (though, they are the same technically) - because, when you extend chord vii, generally you get m7b5, *not* dim7 - and the vii chord is *functioning* as a ii chord in the relative minor, rather than as a diminished chord.

Does that make sense?


Of course, I'm coming from the perspective of functional harmony here - these aren't rules, but this just generally how it happens.
 
Just to be clear, moley. when you say "extend," you mean "follow the rules of building chords from root-third-fifth-seventh tones from the chord's foundation scale." As in "extend the triads you build by adding the seventh tone from the foundation scale."

The word extend in general harmonic usage usually means adding color tones (9, #9, b9, 11, etc.) to a basic four-note chord.
 
are there any sites were i can learn about wheat you guys are talking about? a total dummy site,

also what are the benifits of songwriting from knowing this theory?????
 
Not sure about any specific sites but I'll bet there are tons. Books too.

As far as benefits, from knowing this stuff well you can translate what you hear in your head more directly into reality; you can readily analyze existing songs to underestand something that you like, and be able to take those things and expand them with a greater vocabulary than would otherwise be possible; you can put your stuff down on paper and orchestrate it and communicate it to musicians; you'll get the intellectual pleasure of learning about something very interesting and deep...
 
64Firebird,

I tried that 12-bar thing you posted. That's sounds good :)

Then I started fiddling with it and came up with this variation for the first four bars:

| A7----------|A9-----------|Adim7-------|F9----Adim7|
E|-0--0--0--0-|-7--7--7--7-|-2--2--2--2-|-3--3--2--2-|
B|-5--5--5--5-|-5--5--5--5-|-1--1--1--1-|-1--1--1--1-|
G|-6--6--6--6-|-6--6--6--6-|-2--2--2--2-|-2--2--2--2-|
D|-5--5--5--5-|-5--5--5--5-|-1--1--1--1-|-1--1--1--1-|
A|-0--0--0--0-|-0--0--0--0-|-0--0--0--0-|-0--0--0--0-|
E|-------------|------------|-------------|------------|

It has a slightly more 'jazzy' feel to it but it sounds OK on my Yamaha FG-300 acoustic.

I also tried this little vamp:

| A7----G6---| A7---G6---|
E|-0-----0-----|-0-----0-----|
B|-5-----5-----|-5-----5-----|
G|-6-----4-----|-6-----4-----|
D|-5-----5-----|-5-----5-----|
A|-0-----0-----|-0-----0-----|
E|--------------|--------------|

--
BluesMeister
 
Hey 'Bird, try this as a turn around - each chord gets two beats:

A7----- Bmin7--- B7b9--- A/C#

5------ -X -------- X ------- X
8-------7 ---------7---------10
6-------7----------8----------9
5-------7----------7----------7
7-------X----------X----------X
5-------7----------8----------9

It leads nicely into the IV chord if you want to go there.
The A7 is a regular fifth fret chord.
The Bmin7 is played with 2nd finger on bottom string and 3rd finger doing a barre of the middle three strings.
The B7b9 is 2nd finger playing a C natural (b9) on the bottom, first finger barring across the D, G, and B strings with the 3rd finger playing the D#,
and the A/C# is 2nd finger on the bottom string, 1st finger on the D string, 3rd finger on the G string and little finger on the B string.

You can also make the last chord an A7/C# by changing the fingering to 3rd finger on the bottom, 1st finger on the D string, little finger on the Gstring and 2nd finger on the B string.

foo
 
"the beauty of the diminished chord is that accomplished, and less accomplished, musicians may use it to effortlessly modulate between one key and another"
 
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