lap steel noob

andyhix

andyhix

:dank:
yep, that's me. I bought a little nut extension thingy from stewmac, and I got a real steel bar (as opposed to the hollow slide that fits on your finger). I tuned to open G. (Acoustic, by the way).

Now what? I find that I'm having a hard time coming up with anything interesting. I really think a different tuning might be more versitile, so that I can mix in minor or other chords, but if you look for steel tunings online there are literally dozens of them. I don't know where to start.

I'd be very grateful to anyone with some advice - particularly a new tuning to try (ideally one where I don't need to restring, but I'd be willing if you're adamant), and/or some tab, or free lessons, or something, so I can try to make something of this. The sound I'm getting from my guitar is quite nice - it's just not music, because I'm not sure what I'm doing.
 
If it's six string stick with the normal open tunings.

I prefer open E to open G - it's a higher tension, because the strings are tuned up, and it makes the slide a little easier to control.

It's EBEG#BE.

The way I play minor chords in this tuning is by 'slanting' the slide so that it's not in a straight line, and is slanted across two or more frets.

The easiest way to deal with minor chords, though, is just by avoiding the third - the G# in this case.
 
We got a "Les Paul Pee Wee" for my son on his 4th birthday - he tried to play it, but it went out of tune so often that he got frustrated. Today he's 12 and he rips on standard size guitars.

So we put resonator strings on the Pee Wee (and a new pickup) and I got a couple of solid steel slides.

I use open G tuning, including slanting the slide for major chords that are a 4th or 5th off from the straight position chord (depending on which way the slant goes and which three strings it's on) -- I've found that when I play solo, it's not very rewarding, but when I play along to a chord progression that my son's playing or I pre-recorded, it's great. Have you tried that? I suck at it, btw.
 
32-20-Blues said:
If it's six string stick with the normal open tunings.

I prefer open E to open G - it's a higher tension, because the strings are tuned up, and it makes the slide a little easier to control.

It's EBEG#BE.

The way I play minor chords in this tuning is by 'slanting' the slide so that it's not in a straight line, and is slanted across two or more frets.

The easiest way to deal with minor chords, though, is just by avoiding the third - the G# in this case.
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I tune my old Rick to E but raise the 'A' string from B to C# to give me a 6 feel. The Weissenborn is a E tuning but usually dropped to D or sometimes C. The Dobro stays in G.
 
Thanks a ton, gents. That's some good help, for sure. Particularly, the folkofthewood link looks good. I had looked for something like that, but didn't have much luck. Thanks, doc!
 
andyhix said:
Thanks a ton, gents. That's some good help, for sure. Particularly, the folkofthewood link looks good. I had looked for something like that, but didn't have much luck. Thanks, doc!
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Listen to some David Lindley, too. He has some solo stuff but he is probably best remembered for his lap steel work with Jackson Browne.
 
ggunn said:
Listen to some David Lindley, too. He has some solo stuff but he is probably best remembered for his lap steel work with Jackson Browne.
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That's a good point. I don't have much of a point of reference. If anyone else has any recommendations of who to listen to, let me know. Thanks, GG.
 
andyhix said:
That's a good point. I don't have much of a point of reference. If anyone else has any recommendations of who to listen to, let me know. Thanks, GG.
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Remember the Jackson Browne song "Redneck Friend"? The opening licks and the interior solo are all David Lindley on lap steel. The guy is a lap steel monster.
 
Ok, take this advice in the context of playing lap steel with other players, not as a solo instrument.

I play in open E (or same intervals a whole step down so it's Open D).

A big eye opener in my playing was the forward and backward rolls that you learn for dobro and banjo. A lot of:

Thumb - 1 - 2 - Thumb - 1 - 2 - Thumb - 1

Thumb - 2 - 1 - Thumb - 2 - 1 - Thumb - 2

Once you can fly on those patterns, use them for B sections of songs to add momentum. For A sections, I usually just spell simple chords out like playing the 1-3-5 of the major chords or the 1-5-1 for minor chords. To make it interesting, try chordal inversions (5-1-3) or picking chords backwards, as in 5-3-1.
 
stonepiano said:
Ok, take this advice in the context of playing lap steel with other players, not as a solo instrument.

I play in open E (or same intervals a whole step down so it's Open D).

A big eye opener in my playing was the forward and backward rolls that you learn for dobro and banjo. A lot of:

Thumb - 1 - 2 - Thumb - 1 - 2 - Thumb - 1

Thumb - 2 - 1 - Thumb - 2 - 1 - Thumb - 2

Once you can fly on those patterns, use them for B sections of songs to add momentum. For A sections, I usually just spell simple chords out like playing the 1-3-5 of the major chords or the 1-5-1 for minor chords. To make it interesting, try chordal inversions (5-1-3) or picking chords backwards, as in 5-3-1.
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Excellent! That's just the sorta thing I'm looking for! (although...what do you mean by A and B sections?)

rolls freak me out. I'm a lefty that plays righty, and I have a hard time getting my picking fingers to move fluidly. I know....practice, practice, practice...I just contend that playing wrong handed puts me at a disadvantage (it's a convenient excuse for sucking, anyway...) But I'll work on it.
 
ha!
andyhix said:
... I'm a lefty that plays righty
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me too!

By A and B sections, I'm referring to the natural sections of a song. It's used in jazz shorthand for sure but I've heard it used in folk and country also. Many times, it's a circle of 5ths that starts on the IV of the tonic chord (which the key of the song).

I've got a good example of it on my tune "U Didn't Know It." You can hear it here. THe song is in C and goes to the F for the Bridge at 2:15, I think. :)
 
andyhix said:
Excellent! That's just the sorta thing I'm looking for! (although...what do you mean by A and B sections?)
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Song structure (old time music).

"Most fiddle tunes come from the square and contra dance tradition and have TWO parts of equal length. But some tunes have three parts or more. Some have only one.

Musicians commonly refer to parts by letter, e.g. "A part" "B part." Don't confuse this with the key. You might hear someone warn you of a key change by saying something like "The A part's in D, but the B part's in A."

You might hear a shorthand of repetition patterns - "AABB" or "ABAB" or "AABBC" - that tells you how many parts there are, and how they repeat.

Some (usually more modern) tunes follow a pop song structure, in which you have basically two themes - the main and a bridge. This could be thought of as AABA in which the three "A" parts might each resolve a little differently."

http://www.joelmabus.com/fiddle_tunes_by_ear_handout.htm
 
Thought I'd toss in a couple of tips I got from an old dobro player (really helped me a lot) years ago. One has already been mentioned, about angling the bar to get minors and 7ths. The second is to lift the bar off the strings for some changes, you don't need to slide into everything. I use an A tuning a lot, it has sort of a blusey feel and sound, and doesn't require quite as much moving around an some other tunings. I think Ry Coder used the same tuning a lot. Slide work is pretty common on southern rock (Sknyrd, Allman Bros.) and a lot of these guys use an E tuning or standard tuning (G6.) Some tunings just don't seem to fit with certain songs but work well with others, let your ears tell you what works.
 
stonepiano said:
ha! me too!

By A and B sections, I'm referring to the natural sections of a song. It's used in jazz shorthand for sure but I've heard it used in folk and country also. Many times, it's a circle of 5ths that starts on the IV of the tonic chord (which the key of the song).

I've got a good example of it on my tune "U Didn't Know It." You can hear it here. THe song is in C and goes to the F for the Bridge at 2:15, I think. :)
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[putting the steel talk aside for a sec] So, as someone in the same boat, do you struggle with picking a bit, or am I in fact leaning on that as an excuse. I find certain finger picking patterns are fine, others start out fine and I get "tight" half way through the song - The boxer (simon and garf) pattern always gets me. I can start the song at a nice tempo and half way through my right hand gets clumsy and stiff. Something like "don't think twice" I can zip through no prob. Just a different pattern. I dunno. I've probably played/practiced both equally.

Thanks to everyone for the clarificiation on the A/B parts. kinda what I figured, but wanted to be sure.
 
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