Knowing that people use the smiley EQ setting

HangDawg

bUnGhOlIo
on their playback devices do any of you mix with this in mind? Or, is it best to mix so it sounds the way you intend it to? Some of the stuff the I've done doesn't sound right with the mids scooped and low end cranked because I've already done that to a point when I mixed it. Just wondering how to approach this.
 
I don't do the eq smiley thing on my playback system, I leave it flat with no eq at all. There's no way you can possibly anticipate all the different playback systems or eq curves that listeners will use, so I think it's best to mix the music so it sounds the way *you* want it to sound.
 
SonicAlbert said:
I don't do the eq smiley thing on my playback system, I leave it flat with no eq at all. There's no way you can possibly anticipate all the different playback systems or eq curves that listeners will use, so I think it's best to mix the music so it sounds the way *you* want it to sound.


That's what I do but I know there's been a number of times I have someone put something in their car and it just kind of sounds like ass until the flatten the eq out. I guess that's really all you can do.
 
I have mixed with the eq flat in the past, but recently started to monitor with a smile eq setting. I have a couple of songs I need to mixdown and test if this method will work or not.
That being said, I know that it is absolutely wrong, and I'm sure everyone else will confirm it, I just thought I'd try something different.
 
Lenoh said:
I have mixed with the eq flat in the past, but recently started to monitor with a smile eq setting. I have a couple of songs I need to mixdown and test if this method will work or not.
The whole goal of mix monitoring is to be able to hear what is going on in the mix without bias, so that you can make the right mix decisions. If you fold, spindle and mutilate your monitoring, you will wind up folding, spindling and mutilating your mix, and that's just how it will sound regardless of what the end user does.

Remember that you are sitting in your mixing room, the end user is not. They could be listening at home, on a car stereo, on a computer, On headphones, on an iPod, etc. How they have their EQ set up or not is only one small variable in the equation. How does their room sound? How do their speakers or headphones sound? What does their CD or MP3 player sound like? How good are the listener's ears (if they are doing smiley face EQ, probably not very good), and what are their personal tastes.

Every one of those variables has a different value for every end usage event, and every one of them is different than what you have in front of you at your mixing desk. Trying to shape your mix monitoring EQ to match that of an end user will not only mangle your mix by mangling your ears, it will be an exercise in futility anyway because the rest of your variables will not add up.

G.
 
first let me say that I hate that smiley EQ setting .... it virtually always means the guy that set it doesn't have a clue.
Last week I lent my Mackie 808 to a good friend and it came back with the dreaded smiley eq. Lord, how could he not realize that the EQ setting I had which is a jumbled mess compared to a smiley setting was arrived at with a LOT of experimentation and testing. My setting absolutely sounds the best with virtually any PA speakers you hook it to. To me, it shows a lack of 'ears'.

As for mixing to it ...... I'm not sure that's a good idea ..... people arrive at that setting either by being told to do it or because that's how recordings sound best to them. Since most professional recordings are mixed with being somewhat flat in mind, it'll just make your recordings sound different than everyone elses. Maybe they'll sound better than everyone elses to you ..... but probably not to the dweeb who uses the smiley setting.
 
I knew the barrage was coming lol

SouthSIDE Glen you are correct,it is the industry standard to do so(flat eq and reasonably flat monitors). I previously made songs in a proper studio with reasonably proper monitors, that relationship has dissolved so i am basically at square one right now. I am aware that attempting to compensate for my room and monitoring system with eq is futile, but I love to make music, and the struggle to find things that work and not are part of the process. That being said, I am willing and excited to try a number of things correct or incorrect.

Future posters have mercy on me lol :D
 
Lenoh said:
I have mixed with the eq flat in the past, but recently started to monitor with a smile eq setting. I have a couple of songs I need to mixdown and test if this method will work or not.
That being said, I know that it is absolutely wrong, and I'm sure everyone else will confirm it, I just thought I'd try something different.
well it's not neccessarily wrong if the smiley setting ends up being where your monitors are flatest or makes them sound good.
I don't, personally, believe in the idea of "this is the right way and everything else is wrong". Some great things have happened when people ignore the rules.
And when I see people thinking that there is only one way to do something, well that's very similar to the people that think a smiley EQ is the 'right' way to do it.
Slavishly following 'rules' is a good way to never learn anything so follow your muse wherever it takes you.
You'll either learn something new that we'll all want to know about or you'll confirm that it's not the way to go.
Either way ..... learning is about doing and hearing what happened when you did. People can tell you shit all day long but there's no substitue for doing it and hearing with your own ears what the result is.
 
I know I've learned one thing. NO AMOUNT of treatment will make a small room acceptable for mixing in. I just moved my stuff to the tracking room which is treated well and about 2x as big as the "control" room. The difference is astounding. I'm probably going to tear the fucking wall out and have a 22' X 14' single room.
 
Lenoh said:
I knew the barrage was coming lol

SouthSIDE Glen you are correct,it is the industry standard to do so(flat eq and reasonably flat monitors). I previously made songs in a proper studio with reasonably proper monitors, that relationship has dissolved so i am basically at square one right now. I am aware that attempting to compensate for my room and monitoring system with eq is futile, but I love to make music, and the struggle to find things that work and not are part of the process. That being said, I am willing and excited to try a number of things correct or incorrect.

Future posters have mercy on me lol :D
Lenoh.

No barrage intended :). You asked a question - one in which you already know the answer, apparently :) - and got the correct response you expected.

And you are right when you say that trying to use EQ to compensate for problems in the monitoring chain and environment is futile; EQ is just not up to the task for several solid technical reasons. You may be able to use some EQ in your monitoring to somewhat adjust, but it will never be a satisfactory solution, unfortunately.

There's really only two general tacks one can take to help in getting mixes to translate well to the outside world that will have any lasting positive effect. The first is to try and eliminate problems in the monitoring chain instead of trying to bandaid them or adjust for them. This means not only halfway decent monitors that allow you to hear what you need to hear in order to do your job well, but it also means a good physical setup within your room. Set up your monitors symmetrically within the room, keepingthem and yourself out of the corners and not directly up against a wall, if possible. Also, room treatment in the form of bass trapping and diffusion of first reflections at the minimum. Yeah, monitors cost money, but the physical arrangement an the acoustics don't have to cost that much, if anything at all. A few well-placed bookshelves, drapes or paddedc hairs/counches can help immensely, and bass traps can be made DIY realtively cheaply (see the studio building forum for more on that.)

Second, and perhaps most important, is teaching your ears how to translate your room to the outside. If you learn that if your mixes sound like A in your room, but sound like B when played back everywhere else, then you need to learn how to compensate for that. For example, if the 2-5k range sounds fine in your room but sounds too bright or harsh when played back elsewhere, then learn to cut back on that range a bit in your final mix so that it actually sounds a little anemic in your room.

A good way to try and figure out the translation factor is to play a good, balanced, commercial CD in your room. Use that as a rough template to start with in figuring out a) what your room needs in the way of treatment, and b) how you may beed to translate your mixes to sound similar. NOTE: That does not mean, however that you can or should expect your mix to sound like the CD. They are different musicians using different gear for different songs; it will sound different than your stuff...as it should. All the idea is is that you can hear how your room affects that CD (e.g your room boosts the bass or harshes the mids or whatever) and know that it might have a similar effect on your mix that you need to compensate for.

HTH,

G.
 
Thank you very much for a well thought out and informative post(SouthSIDE Glen). Its nice when someone gives you advice and explains why (s)he feels a certain way, and also how to actually Help someone.

That is the next step, treat the room and monitoring position. I saw the thread about the diy bass traps and room treatment, so I'll start there tomorrow.

Lt. Bob i agree that these are not rules, but strongly suggested guidelines.
I feel that you will never know what you can do by focusing on what not to do. :)
 
Car Audio EQ?????

I checked my kid and and some of his friends and the ones that have a graphic push ALLthe bands to the top!!! Dont ask me why, it sounds like ass to me but what do I know???I'm just a geezer and SO OUTA TOUCH!!!???


chazba
 
Lenoh said:
I have mixed with the eq flat in the past, but recently started to monitor with a smile eq setting. I have a couple of songs I need to mixdown and test if this method will work or not.
That being said, I know that it is absolutely wrong, and I'm sure everyone else will confirm it, I just thought I'd try something different.

I have three songs that I mixed with this setting. I also started mixing with my 13 inch tv. Saying i'm mixing on the tv is too strong, I now double check my mixes on the tv and through headphones. I must say i am happy with the way they sound in the car, not professional quality but at least its reasonably good.

I'm not at home now, but will have the link posted this evening. Thanks a million SouthSide Glen for your help i think it actually improved my skills.
 
Songs Mixed With Smile EQ

Here is the link please give a listen and tell me what the mix sounds like on your end. Thanks

Songs
 
Smiley-face EQ? :eek:

When did this happen?

Someone forgot to tell the youngsters the other things they will need for the smiley-face setup to sound right -- LPs and cassettes. :D
 
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