I've come to the conclusion

Clam Soup

Clam Soup

Project 49
Recording music is difficult. ... yeah, I always knew there was going to be more to it than just hitting a button and playing, but I am afraid I'm ruining more than I'm capturing for a simple lack of knowledge.

So, I'm going to start over and ask for help in the simple parts first.

Is there a 1, 2, 3 that most everyone employs, or is everything going to be subject to style/genre?

What I am trying to create is a songwriter's demo. Nothing overloaded with gimickry, but a basic dry
recording that best suits the nature of the songs in their raw form. At the same time, I want these tracks to be clean (not too muddy - not too bright) so that other folks can work with them and dress them out with other instruments, voices, etc.

I would like to employ a bit of EQ for resonance, but everytime I touch that control I end up destroying what I was trying to "fix."

If someone has some simple recordings they'd like to share with me I'm glad to listen. That has been one of the best things in this forum - listening to what others have accomplished. When I hear something that most represents what I am trying to do, I'll probably start turning to that individual(s) for advice on how to accomplish that.
 
The best advice I can give anyone (and believe me, I'm no pro.) is: Get it right at the source. That can't be over-emphasized, yet it seems to be taken too lightly by anyone without a lot of experience.

Before thinking about EQ'ing, compressing, reverb, delay....or anything else. You need to get it as close as possible when tracking. That means having a good sounding instrument played by a good musician in a good sounding room.

The most common mistake that newbs make is thinking that there's a magic plug-in or a nice shiny piece of gear that will help their sound. It's amazing how many people recoil at the idea of spending money on room treatment, for example, yet they have no problem shelling out for a nice shiny piece of gear that they think will give them a "pro" sound.
 
It might also help to post a sound clip of what you have, and what you like/dislike about it. That way, folks can give more specific advice.

There is also the MP3 clinic, though I think thats more for somewhat finished mixes.
 
RAMI said:
The best advice I can give anyone (and believe me, I'm no pro.) is: Get it right at the source. That can't be over-emphasized, yet it seems to be taken too lightly by anyone without a lot of experience.

Before thinking about EQ'ing, compressing, reverb, delay....or anything else. You need to get it as close as possible when tracking. That means having a good sounding instrument played by a good musician in a good sounding room.

The most common mistake that newbs make is thinking that there's a magic plug-in or a nice shiny piece of gear that will help their sound. It's amazing how many people recoil at the idea of spending money on room treatment, for example, yet they have no problem shelling out for a nice shiny piece of gear that they think will give them a "pro" sound.
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^^This is where everything good starts from. Yes, it takes talent, experience, and a considerable amount of money to achieve all that you desire. You already have the talent and experience in your instruments of choice. By the way, I really dig your tunes.

Obviously, Miro has not heard any of your stuff as yet. He should possibly be flogged for not listening to the forum he suggested. lol!
 
:D

Oh...is there some stuff in the MP3 clinic?

Ooops.
Sorry, I don't hit that forum too often.
Nothing against the MP3 clinic...it's a good place to get feedback.

CS
You can add a link in this thread to the stuff you posted in the MP3...that way folks can quickly reference it.
 
jimmys69 said:
^^This is where everything good starts from. Yes, it takes talent, experience, and a considerable amount of money to achieve all that you desire. You already have the talent and experience in your instruments of choice. By the way, I really dig your tunes.

Obviously, Miro has not heard any of your stuff as yet. He should possibly be flogged for not listening to the forum he suggested. lol!
Click to expand...

miroslav said:
:D

Oh...is there some stuff in the MP3 clinic?

Ooops.
Sorry, I don't hit that forum too often.
Nothing against the MP3 clinic...it's a good place to get feedback.

CS
You can add a link in this thread to the stuff you posted in the MP3...that way folks can quickly reference it.
Click to expand...

Yes - in my bassackward approach, I went to the mp3 clinic first. .... Each one of the songs I posted there are in dire need of help, but I put a few up just to see if something someone said made sense to me. By that, if they start talking all technical, I'm lost before I got started. The last one I put up http://dl.dropbox.com/u/48334051/Don't Call On Me.mp3 Don't Call On Me was one I wrote to my cigarettes. ... I hear the problem with this one and believe I know what I did wrong - after using a flanger on the second guitar track I used the volume knob to pass it up and down in the mix - sounded like a "wah wah" type thing in the cubase, but in wav, and mp3 it just sounds mushed.

You've been an amazing help thus far Jimmy - if I could play better I'd probably work harder at capturing the songs, but in the moment I am just trying to get the integrity of the lyrics/melody out without screwing it up too bad. I can hear what I need - just can't seem to play any better than I do. .... then add in my lack of recording knowledge and the stupid dog that won't quit interupting me and it all comes out sounding like hot buttered mishmash.
 
moresound said:
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm ..... hot buttered mishmash.
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I like a bit of nutmeg on mine...

As for the recording, don't underestimate how much you can improve things by playing with your mic placement. Even in an untreated room it's worth experimenting and looking for "sweet spots". If you usually sit by a wall move out to the middle and do a test. If you face directly at a wall, turn yourself 45 degrees so there's an angle. If you normally face the full length curtains over the patio door, sit in front facing away so the mic is facing the soft curtains. If you usually have you mic down low, raise it up so, after recording you, it faces the carpet. There's no single tip I can give but it's worth finding a placement and technique that gives you your best original recording.
 
Knowing the basic is very important.And yes, recording is not a one night success. In most part; even the pro ones, it is more of a trial and error process. It is why you often heard the term "re-recording" "re-mix" "remastering", even in the commercial and professional level. If you are not happy with the results, then do it again until it sounds perfect to you. Know why it sounds bad, if you are not sure; submit your mix to the clinic and get info from others.
 
Emerson Maningo said:
Knowing the basic is very important.
Click to expand...

One of the biggest misconceptions I hear and see is people saying "With modern/digital recording gear, recording great sounding music is so easy that anybody can do it". While it may be easier, if you don't have the basic knowledge of audio, mic placement, signal flow, gain structures, etc. Then your music will always be as good as your weakest link. I am a big advocate of, if you want to learn to record, not only do trial and error, but READ READ READ. Get books, even schoolbooks, on recording. Watch youtube tutorials (though most need to be taken with a grain of salt). And just get a desire to suck up all the knowledge you can about your new found hobby.
 
CS

Since you are mainly recording guitar and vocal at this point.....what Bobbsy and others have said, try different mic positions and setups and rooms....until you start getting what you want.
Don't bother with flangers and whatnot until you have an acceptable basic sound of the vocal and the guitar.

You can then start to add some other tracks and slowly build up a more complex mix.
 
I have said this a thousand times in the short time I've been around this forum, but you guys are a wealth of help. I am sure that some of my biggest problems are my own personality - which hates to learn in academic terms and prefers to absorb from around me.

To record means learning terms like DAW, and EQ, and etc... which to some seems to make perfect sense out of the box, but for me it is like learning a whole new language. My equipment came with very little instructions - and if I were writing instructions on "how to record" I'd post a link to this site over the manufacturer's sites for sure!
 
Clam, I don't think there's a lot wrong with what you're doing now if you're trying to create a "songwriter's demo" - I've mentioned the guitar playing thing already - up to you to improve if you want to spend the time... if not, do you know any guitarists that can help out?

The more I record, the less interested I am in actually being the person doing the playing... but I don't have many options there...

Keep it simple. Record the guitar once, record exactly the same thing again. Pan them. Record vocal once, record exactly the same thing again. Keep the best as main track, use the second as a double, volume lower than the first. Or comp together two tracks from a number of takes and do it that way. Add another track of any other noodly guitar bits and you're done with tracking.

Keep an ear out for boomy lows on your acoustic and cut them if necessary, keep the tracks fairly dry, but put a bit of reverb on your vocals. Check volumes - if things are popping out there and there, automate the volume to control it and voila, done... a songwriter's demo.

I don't think you're all that far away from what I heard. Just keep your hands off the knobs unless you know exactly why you're touching them.

You don't always have to EQ and compress especially for simple instrumentation. You'll work out exactly where to stick the mic to get the best tone too, in time.

Keep at it..
 
Armistice said:
Clam, I don't think there's a lot wrong with what you're doing now if you're trying to create a "songwriter's demo" - I've mentioned the guitar playing thing already - up to you to improve if you want to spend the time... if not, do you know any guitarists that can help out?

The more I record, the less interested I am in actually being the person doing the playing... but I don't have many options there...

Keep it simple. Record the guitar once, record exactly the same thing again. Pan them. Record vocal once, record exactly the same thing again. Keep the best as main track, use the second as a double, volume lower than the first. Or comp together two tracks from a number of takes and do it that way. Add another track of any other noodly guitar bits and you're done with tracking.

Keep an ear out for boomy lows on your acoustic and cut them if necessary, keep the tracks fairly dry, but put a bit of reverb on your vocals. Check volumes - if things are popping out there and there, automate the volume to control it and voila, done... a songwriter's demo.

I don't think you're all that far away from what I heard. Just keep your hands off the knobs unless you know exactly why you're touching them.

You don't always have to EQ and compress especially for simple instrumentation. You'll work out exactly where to stick the mic to get the best tone too, in time.

Keep at it..
Click to expand...

AHA! Here is something that makes great sense to me to try..... understandable, and very specific.

This is going to help a lot on the next song I start from the bottom - I'm going to try it exactly like this.

The song I'm working on now seems to be asking for a little juice - not sure if I can do a backing ad-lib vocal or something to dress it out a bit since my "noodling" is substantially worse than most. ... maybe the dog chain and the tamborine need to be brought back in. heheh.
 
duplicate and pan!


or dont


damn I can never remember :)


always plan what you want to do/achieve with each recording
find a commercial product you can A/B against
never be afraid to bin anything, even if youve spent hours on it
 
I know this is the recording forum but since EQ was mentioned, I'd like to share something that helped me understand what different parameters in my fx plugins do.

If you search around, you can find the stem tracks for many classic albums by famous artists. The Beatles and the Rolling Stones are the first two that come to mind and they are also the ones that I used. Download them and buy or borrow the full commercially released album as well.

Once you download the tracks, import them into you daw and start slapping all kinds of Fx on them. Play with the parameters to see how they affect the sound of the instruments. After you get bored of doing that, take a break and listen to the regular album. Pay close attention to the way the instruments sound in the mix. Afterwards, go back to your daw and start playing again, only this time, try to emulate the mix on the commercial album. You'll likely not achieve the exact same results in your mix but I'll bet you'll begin to start to understand how reverb, EQ, compression and other effects affect each instrument's sound and the way in which they all interact in a mix. The good thing about this method is that its less stressful than working on your own tracks because you have no attachment to the way it turns out.

This really helped me a lot and I hope it helps you too. :)
 
What I would say to the OP is to completely immerse yourself in recording and recorded music for a while, before even trying to record something you'd consider releasing. Trawl through the net, watch videos, print things out, make notes and experiment with all the tips that are out there until you whittle it all down to a number of effects/mic placements/EQ that you know works for you. Through that process you'll be subjecting your ears to alot of training as well. It's tough, but try to enjoy it!
 
kcearl said:
never be afraid to bin anything, even if youve spent hours on it
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Or years. I used to be impatient to get stuff done and would build upon lame foundations, only for years later to scrap the lot and start again.
An important quality a home recorder needs to develop is ruthlessness. Forget being arty farty ! Ruthlessness rocks. And it rolls !
 
Clam Soup said:
Recording music is difficult. ... yeah, I always knew there was going to be more to it than just hitting a button and playing, but I am afraid I'm ruining more than I'm capturing for a simple lack of knowledge
Click to expand...
To nab a spy, you have to think like a spy........
 
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