isolating snare bleed from overheads

F

Foo-bu

New member
i'm having problems trying to isolate my snare drum. i find that i always have snare bleed in my overheads and its so much that even when i turn down the fader which i sent the snare mic's signal to, it does nothing. usually, i position my overhead mics fabout a foot above my cymbals and facing straight down. i've even tried pointing them away from the snare. any suggestions as to what i can do? thanks!
 
The overheads are typically for picking up the whole kit, so you wouldn't want to take the snare out. If the snare is too much in the overheads, find te offending frequency with a parametric eq and suck it out. You might have better luck if you have the overheads as high as you can get them. The farther away you get, the more natural the kit tends to sound.
 
Yeh why you want to take the snare out of the oheads?

That's where the main snare sound is. The snare mic just adds a bit of beef
 
try this mic the overheads 2 drum sticks high over the snare and then on the Left overhead place it just over the drumers right shoulder also 2 drum sticks high centered at the kick. What this does is give you a perfect balnaced kit every time. It makes the snare and the kick dead center, it keeps everything in phase and also makes it easy to pan the overheads hard left right and get a full spectrum of the toms. You dont want the snare out you want the kit balanced. The main drum sound comes from overheads and a kick mic. If you cant get a balanced kit no matter how big it is with 2 overheads and a kick you dont know what your doing, but thats ok thats why im here to tell you this trick so you dont have to worry about it. If you snare sucks this works better find a sample of a snare you like and use soundrelpacer or a trigger drum machine like an alesis dm4 or dm5 and let the audio track of the snare trigger the samples then mute the snare mic and blend in with the overheads also works great for kick replacment When you dont have time to retrack. this has saved my butt more then once.
good luck :)
 
Snare picked up from your overheads isn't generally refered to as "bleed."

That's kind of like saying "I'm getting too much instrument bleed from my room mic. " :D
 
chessrock said:
Snare picked up from your overheads isn't generally refered to as "bleed."

That's kind of like saying "I'm getting too much instrument bleed from my room mic. " :D
Click to expand...

What is it called then?
 
It's called the source. Others refer to it as the instrument being tracked.

What I'm mic'ing is a common phrase.
 
this may sound crazy but...
if you pointed the ovrhds AWAY from the sanre and youre STILL getting too much bleed.

tell the drummer to lay off a little.

or, if youve got one, try a different snare.

but frankly...

big snare "spill" is all good in my book my friend.
 
I take it you are also close micing and you want the close snare mic to be the dominate snare sound.

Where are you placing you're overheads?

You need to achieve better balance. Mic placement plays a significant role.
 
i'm placing my overheads about a foot and a half above my cymbals. my cymbals are set up so that if i stretch my arms out at about a 45 degree angle (from my drum stool) i can reach them. hope that helps
 
have you tried the Recorderman Modified Spaced Mic placement?

One over the snare, the other over the shoulder pointed at the snare... both the same distance from the snare and kick

-keith-
 
Heck, I've thought about putting up a third overhead mic for EXCLUSIVELY picking up more snare! That's about 90% of a good snare sound right there in the oh's.
 
Put the Overheads closer to the cymbals. Try as close as a half a foot sometimes. Kind of depends on how many cymbals you have because you want to make sure you get a good balance of them all.

This is only if you want a very dry sound from the kit. This way it also helps illiminate phase from other drums too, but you still should be careful. Also, this will also require you to use a few more mics. I really recommend using a bottom snare mic just in case. You might not need it, but it would suck if you did later.

This technique isnt really recommended unless you know what your doing. Using the overheads for a full balance on the kit is usually smarter.

Danny
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Heck, I've thought about putting up a third overhead mic for EXCLUSIVELY picking up more snare! That's about 90% of a good snare sound right there in the oh's.
Click to expand...


Can I get a Amen brother!The biggest prob is usally too much hat in the snare mic...but this is the first time I've heard too much sn. in the overs..The drumset is one instrim. look at it that way..Would you record a guitar 1 string at a time..I know thats extream, but you get my point...good luck
 
Nah i disagree that a Drumset is one instrument. I think thats saying that an orchestra with violins, violas, cellos, bass violin, trumpets, trombones, french horns, harp, and the entire percussion is one instrument.

You can use 2 stereo mics to capture the entire peice, or you can use mics for individual section. Its not a matter of right or wrong just what kind of sound you are looking for.

A snare is a totally different instrument than a tom, cymbal, hi hat, bass drum, just like a violin is totally different to a trumpet or cello.

Individual micing is probably a little more difficult, different sounding, but it isnt wrong. Most of my favorite Rock Drum recordings were done with very close micing techniques and the overheads used mainly for cymbals. In my opinion it give you more options later because you are breaking down the instruments.

danny
 
We will have to agree to disagree...On the drum kit being one verses more than one ins. many opinions make the world go round :)
 
darnold said:
Nah i disagree that a Drumset is one instrument. I think thats saying that an orchestra with violins, violas, cellos, bass violin, trumpets, trombones, french horns, harp, and the entire percussion is one instrument. danny
Click to expand...

The drum set is one instrument. thats why it's a set. An orchestra is not one instrument because it does melody, acoumpaniment and percussion at once. That would make it more like a band. (oddly enough) If you took away your snare drum and hats, the set would be useless in any situation that would warrant a drum set
 
Yah i guess thats a way to look at it. Even if you consider it one instrument, doesnt mean you cant use close microphones to pick up a specific sound in just that microphone. My main point was being that it is not wrong to individual mic everything for its sounds. It is a possible way. I just get sick of people saying that the overheads should be a balance of the kit. Its not always true. Sometimes i just do not get the same effect or sound when i do it that way. I do it that way sometimes, and i do it the other way other times, based on the sound im looking for. I dont feel like for most modern harder rock sounds, and in rooms that are mostly likely less than good, using that kind of distance just doesnt work as well. When i am doing my jazz groups, i get a balance with the overheads and rely on them for the beef of my sound and it works great. Everytime ive tried that on a hardcore, punk, or hard rock, it never comes out the way i need it.

Its all based on capturing the depth of the sound. If the drums are one of the more important parts of the instrumentation, the thing that drives the music, you want it upfront with little depth while other things are put in the back. Drums in these harder styles of music are right up close to the vocals because the guitars and base really dont do much but fill it up a little.

My opinion on how it isnt one instrument might not be agreeable by everyone. But personally like to think of it that every different drum on there does its own thing, does its own job, and knowing that job is where i control how important it is in the mix.

Im out.

Danny
 
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