Is there an "Ideal" Location in a Studio for Tracking?

Muddy T-Bone

Muddy T-Bone

New member
I seem to recall reading quite some time ago that this location was located 1/3 the width and at 1/3 the distance of the room. Is this correct?

I've just moved into my new studio, I'm 2/3 completed with room treatment, and ready to put an X on the floor.
 
Well funny thing, I just measured the room and the spot where my chair has been placed to play was around 5-6" off from the 33% width and length of the room. Must be something to this.
 
Muddy T-Bone said:
Well funny thing, I just measured the room and the spot where my chair has been placed to play was around 5-6" off from the 33% width and length of the room. Must be something to this.
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My apologies if I come off as as smart a$$, but it is not the intention.

I would think it really is a matter of the sound of the room you are trying to capture. More room/less room, treating what you are trying to remove, etc.

I would think there is no special place for tracking. Guess I will find out how bad my response is ;)
 
Muddy T-Bone said:
I seem to recall reading quite some time ago that this location was located 1/3 the width and at 1/3 the distance of the room. Is this correct?
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You're referring to ideal mix position distance from the front or rear wall....which should be about 1/3 the whole length.

AFA recording position in the room....it's not about that. You may not want to be in a corner, but other than that, find what is comfortable and if there's one spot that sounds best to you over other positions in the room....then go with that.

I really don't spend too much time thinking about that. Sometimes you record where you have to. Like when I track piano, it's up against a wall....so is my Hammond. My guitar amps are all about a foot away from the wall, and I don't ever bother moving them around the room. I've got several amps/cabs in a line on one side, and that's where I record them.
 
miroslav said:
You're referring to ideal mix position distance from the front or rear wall....which should be about 1/3 the whole length.

AFA recording position in the room....it's not about that. You may not want to be in a corner, but other than that, find what is comfortable and if there's one spot that sounds best to you over other positions in the room....then go with that.

I really don't spend too much time thinking about that. Sometimes you record where you have to. Like when I track piano, it's up against a wall....so is my Hammond. My guitar amps are all about a foot away from the wall, and I don't ever bother moving them around the room. I've got several amps/cabs in a line on one side, and that's where I record them.
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Miroslav,

Yes, the mix position should be at 38% of the width, which is very close to the 33% I mention. Relative to tracking location, It's not a big deal, like I said I measured where it sounds good to me, and it just happened to be about 5" off the 1/3 distance thing. Keep in mind, there are 4 places in room that meet that criteria.
 
Uhhhhh, whatever SOUNDS good....

Use your ears and make some test recordings.

Math guestimates are only good at giving you a starting point.
 
Muddy T-Bone said:
Miroslav,

Yes, the mix position should be at 38% of the width, which is very close to the 33% I mention.
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Mmmmm....it's actually 38% of the room length, or whatever you call your front and back walls relative to your mix position.

To tell the truth, I never broke out a ruler to locate my mix position. It was simply a matter of how my desk fell into place....and since I use a console, that plus the desk ant the monitors just happened to fall into the sweet spot distance from the front wall.
The tracking...like I said, depends on where my instruments are (piano, organ, amps, drums). For acoustic guitar, I've put up mics in a few spots of the studio, never measured any of them...and for vocals, I have basically a set spot that also wasn't chosen by measurement, by more by how it sounds there, and also where it's the most comfortable for me to set up for doing vocals.
I mean...just find what you like, with or without the ruler. :)
 
It depends what you're mic'ing and how you're mic'ing it, really. If the source is being close mic'ed, like a guitar amp or a vocal, then as long as there is nothing directly in front, behind or to the side of the mic/source, y'all should be good (if it sounds good in the room of course).

Acoustic guitars may want more ambiance, so sitting with the guitar in a more livelier spot in the room with no carpet underneath (and some treatment overhead) could tend to lead to good results...but it all depends on what you're going for.

Drums I have found are the most sensitive because they have such a wide space that they take up. Since you are using a combo of close and far mic'ing, they are more sensitive to where you are in the room. Walk around with a floor tom (or a drum with a decay, tuned low but not flabby) and see where it sounds best. If it maintains it's decay in a spot that sounds sweet and full, put it there. If certain spots make it choke out and leave you just a thwap with a choked decay of thin horrible overtones and less low end, then you're probably in a spot where the room is causing some cancellations (bad). These cancellations are easier to hear in the lower frequencies because they drop out. That's why I suggested a floor tom. Kicks and snares are too short in decay to notice as much compare to a floor tom. Conversely, you could also end up in a spot that is TOO boomy, like directly in a corner, so find a spot that sounds just right. (oddly enough I've seen a lot of studio pics with the drums in the corner which has never personally worked for me, whether live or studio).

Good luck and have fun!
 
it's also the sound of the actual kit that makes it sound good, and the way the drummer plays, I like drummers that play quiet for recording, cymbals are also very overlooked, and they probably make the biggest difference to the overall sound, a harsh cymbal will never sound nice, same with a snare that rings and sounds nasty, always better to get it right at the source than try to EQ it later.
 
The rule of thumb for placing the listening position in the room is a based on acoustical science, having something to do with staying out of the worst of the standing waves in the room. In theory, it should actually be off center (at 38%) in all three directions. Unless you're in a pretty damn big room (in which case you don't really need to worry as much to begin), the right/left symmetry of early reflections is a bigger concern, so we usually fudge it for that dimension, and we usually choose the up/down position more for ergonomic reasons.

Following from this, we can guess that (at least theoretically), this would also be the best place to put a microphone if what we wanted was the flattest possible representation of the low end of whatever we're trying to record. Of course, early reflections and ergonomics are concerns in this situation also. As with just about anything we do, the right spot will depend on all kinds of factors, and the best way to find it is to listen, but if you're looking for a best guess for a place to at least start looking, this area right around 38% in each direction is likely to get you closest fastest.
 
If you always record all alone in a room, you may have that luxury of hitting that 38% x 3 position, assuming also that you can place all the instruments you use in that one sweet spot.

Realistically, when you check out a lot of actual studio sessions, you don't really see people consciously doing that, and with multiple players, it's actually impossible. Also, the walls can sometimes work for you, and not necessarily always against you.....like the position of an amp/cab or the back of an upright piano...etc.
IMO....there's really nothing "magical" about the 38% position for tracking, like there might be for mixing...but YMMV. :)
 
miroslav said:
If you always record all alone in a room, you may have that luxury of hitting that 38% x 3 position, assuming also that you can place all the instruments you use in that one sweet spot.

Realistically, when you check out a lot of actual studio sessions, you don't really see people consciously doing that, and with multiple players, it's actually impossible. Also, the walls can sometimes work for you, and not necessarily always against you.....like the position of an amp/cab or the back of an upright piano...etc.
IMO....there's really nothing "magical" about the 38% position for tracking, like there might be for mixing...but YMMV. :)
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Yes, the 38% position is the supposed ideal for monitoring but there is, IMHO a great deal of confusion over the acoustical requirements of a room for recording, i.e. generating real sound, and monitoring/mixing.

If the theory of Nearfield Monitoring is valid (and if it ain't, 95% of us are wasting our time!) room effects should have minimal impact on monitored sound. After all, we spend all our lives listening to things in bad to apalling rooms! Rarely is the room SO bad that we notice it.

When however we RECORD in a room the resultant can be dreadful! Well, usually is! This is because mics are "dumb" they cannot Do the math that you do in your head to eliminate the room effect. (there is I believe an analogue here in colour temperature?) .

I shall leave now lest the beast that is Ethan arises to smite me!

Dave.
 
Btyre2013 said:
cymbals are also very overlooked, and they probably make the biggest difference to the overall sound, a harsh cymbal will never sound nice
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Yep, that's why I can't stand engineers that don't bother to learn more about drums. LEARN how to tune them, LEARN what a good drum sound is, LEARN how to listen for what a good cymbal is, LEARN how to fix problems with the kit ASIDE FROM COVERING THEM IN GOD FORSAKEN GAFFERS TAPE!!!

I can't even listen to songs that have shitty cymbals. Especially small sized, high pitched crashes. High pitched and bright cymbals are SO overdone! Maybe I'm biased, but slightly larger than usual and dark cymbals always take the win for me, no matter the style. More tone, character, more texture. Fits with the music better, everytime!

That's why I love Clutch. JP's kit is just phenomenal sounding. Cymbals are dark as f*ck and amazing. Just listen to that chorus. Cymbals don't distract, the just groove with tune.

Subtle Hustle by Clutch - YouTube
 
RecordingMaster said:
Yep, that's why I can't stand engineers that don't bother to learn more about drums. LEARN how to tune them, LEARN what a good drum sound is, LEARN how to listen for what a good cymbal is, LEARN how to fix problems with the kit ASIDE FROM COVERING THEM IN GOD FORSAKEN GAFFERS TAPE!!!

I can't even listen to songs that have shitty cymbals. Especially small sized, high pitched crashes. High pitched and bright cymbals are SO overdone! Maybe I'm biased, but slightly larger than usual and dark cymbals always take the win for me, no matter the style. More tone, character, more texture. Fits with the music better, everytime!

That's why I love Clutch. JP's kit is just phenomenal sounding. Cymbals are dark as f*ck and amazing. Just listen to that chorus. Cymbals don't distract, the just groove with tune.

Subtle Hustle by Clutch - YouTube
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exactly and you are right that kit sounds great, it never gets in the way or sounds too harsh, very good job whoever engineered that example! :thumbs up:

ribbons are a recording engineers best friend when it comes to harsh cymbals.
 
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