Is the move to pro tools worth it....

B

bad intentionz

New member
I been using adobe audtion for a couple years now and wanted to know if taking the step to protools is worth it. If I'm sounding a little vague I'm sorry. If I do jump into it i would be buying a M box. Mainly recording hip hop/rap. Thank you for any feedback.
 
Does Audition work fine for you? If so, then maybe you have no need for PT.

Do you know someone closeby who uses PT? Ask if you can play around with it for a while just to get a feel for PT.

I used Audition 3.0 before I had PT and I think the move has been worth it for me.
 
Most DAWs all do the same thing. It's mostly about workflow, there is no quality difference. What is your current software not doing for you?
 
All DAWS are 'not' the same, yes, move up

All DAWs are not the same.
The workflow is different, yes, but so is the philosophy and how you go about creating tracks and mixes.

The instruments that come with Pro Tools 8 are worth the upgrade alone.
You know all of those commercials you hear on the television? They're all made with Pro Tools instruments, mostly Structure and Xpand!2 that are in Pro Tools Le versions even. I was floored when I came from Cubase 5 to Pro Tools Le 8 in that factor alone.

Yes, it took me a year and 1/2 to really get used to the tools available and the workflow change, but man was it ever worth it.

The argument or discussion that someone who knows what they're doing can create the same sounds in Cubase 5 and vst instruments is true. But we're not a seasoned professional when we come into a new product and are just music creators. It's like using waves compressor, the presets are so varied and tweaked to perfection, that within choosing the first 5 or 6 presets you will probably find the setting that's just perfect for pulling out the sound on your track, whatever the track is (bass, lead, organ, vocal, drums, etc.).

With Cubase compressor for instance they all sound like gradeschool stuff compared to college sounds with waves.

The same difference is true between the fx and instruments in Pro Tools compared to Cubase. To me anyway.

Yes, change up, and get to know it inside out and use it as your tool of expression.

Chuck
 
Chuck, the only examples you sited for the differences between Cubase and PT are the VST's that come with it and the work flow. You can use waves plugs in either, so that is irrelevant.

The fact that you use presets for compression tells a lot about your experience level. The only way a preset could be perfect for something is if you happen to be applying it to the thing that the people at waves were applying it to.

Things like compression and EQ settings depend entirely on what you are applying them to. You can certainly see that a 'vocal' preset on a compressor or EQ plugin couldn't possibly be the perfect thing for rap vocals, male rock vocals, female country vocals, opera and gregorian chant.

No matter how wonderfully done the presets are, they will really only apply to the the thing the guy who wroter them was listening to in the context and style he was working in at the time.
 
differences in DAW's

Yes, farview, I'm a songwriter, artist and not a mixing engineer or recording engineer. I only speak of my personal experiences.

And since more than half of my song creating is done with virtual instruments then that is the experience I am talking about.

You sound like one of those professionals who have the experience mixing and mastering where you can get a great sound out of any DAW. Well, good. But some of us are only artistic hacks who are meeting these really complex DAWs (Pro Tools and Cubase, compared to Reason...) where there is the rtas or virtual instruments we create the drum and bass tracks, or organ and orchestra and guitar... and yes, we lay in the vocal. It is taking me years to learn what to do with compression and limiting, reverb, etc. Those tools are far more powerful than I know what to do with. So, yes, when I take my bass track and put on the Pro Tools bf compressor and I click through the presets and the brickwall is the best sound out of the others, I 'use' it.

So, yes, that is my experience level. It will be another 5 or 6 years before I'm at the beginner/intermediate level, and probably another 20 before I am at the intermediate level. I am 59 so probably not going to achieve those heights :) grins.

But, yes, simply and purely from an artistic creative level of experience I find that Propellerhead Reason allows for instant midi song creation at a great sound level. Next is Pro Tools. Cubase 5 (and 4 and 3SX the ones that I paid for and upgraded) are toys compared to Pro Tools. Yes, that is my opinion. From a purely simple minded artist using it to midi create song pieces. I'm the one who paid over $700.00 for Cubase and upgrades to version 5 and consider it my learning experience, for once I came to Pro Tools I realized that I had professional tools at hand, far above the available options in Cubase.

so, in the end, each user must just speak from their experiences and to me there are differences in quality.
The presets in the fx software in Cubase is really shoddy. In Pro Tools really professional, and in Waves superior.
Not just the presets.. I can manipulate a few knobs and come up with a good, clean sounding track in Pro Tools fx, and I could not in Cubase, it always sounded muddy. Things like that. :)

I wish you well
Chuck
 
You know that you can use waves in Cubase, right?

All I'm saying is that the reasons you think protools is better really miss the point of the daw. If it's all about presets and virtual instruments, you can get 3rd party plugins that dump all over all the stock stuff that comes with any daw.
 
Personally I think you need the DAW that best suits the person, I find alot of people go to protools for the sake of going protools. I use Cubase 5, but are making the move to pro tools because I am working with alot of different pro tools systems at uni. (which is why im on this forum)
Im primarily an artist, so i understand how all the parameters of effects can become overwhelming, when all you really want to achive is presentable form. From an engineer side. I can agree that third party stuff yields better results. . . In capable hands.

Off topic, does anyone know when the new mbox pro is due for release? (UK) I cant find any info anywhere
 
Farview is correct. All daws do the same thing (record audio) and they all do it the same way (arm a track hit record and have at it).

It's the after that's important. How the program manipulates the audio.


That said, I'm both a cubase and m powered user (LE before m powered, there is no difference).

I'm not a huge fan of pro tools LE/m powered for the fallowing reason:

1. Latency compensation, because there is none.

Take a plugin like the PSP vintage warmer and throw it on a bottom snare mic but not on the top, the plugin has something like 2000 samples of latency. Pro tools does nothing to combat this issue so you literally hear the bottom mic flaming with the top. Mellowmuse came out with a work around RTAS plugin called ATA, but the fact that there needs to be a work around annoys me when cubse (my other main daw) does it automatically (not always 100% correct but you can even tweak the setting for that so it's 100% dead on).

2. No drum editor.

I've gotten to hooked on the drum editor in cubase. To explain it better, instead of a piano roll like every other DAW on the planet uses, the drum editor uses diamond shapes to represent on/off messages when editing midi. You don't have to focus on length like a piano roll because the editor was intended to use with drum VSTi (virtual instrument).

3. Time warp.

I like how cubase does it better. Turn on the warp tool and drag the timeline to match what your working on. AKA you have a loop and don't know the tempo, it's VERY quick to tweak the tempo to fit the loop in cubase. (yes I know you can use beat detective for this in pro tools, but what about an entire multi drum track that wasn't recorded to a click?).

4. There are not a lot of free RTAS plugins (you can see this as good or bad).

Well, that's kind of good because it means a lot less poorly programed plugins floating around ready to reek havok on your software (crashes, etc...), But bad because your always gonna be forking for plugins. Pro tools 8 had a lot of new good plugins thrown in over 7 so this isn't the end of the world by any means. The full version of cubase 5 has more plugins and IMO they are better (other than the mediocre GUIs, I will give you that :lol:).

5. Lack of a freeze function in pro tools.

Say your computer kind of sucks (mine does not, I only use this on CPU intensive VST instruments like superior 2) and you have added one to many plugins. Well, in pro tools it usually comes down to printing the track and turing off the plugins in order to free up CPU. Oh and it has to be done in real time. Well in cubase there is a button that temporarily renders the file (in non real time) and bypasses the plugins. Want to tweak that plugin again later? Just unfreeze the track, tweak and freeze again. I really like this feature.

6. Limited I/O

Yeah this isn't a huge issue, who needs more than 16 ins and 16outs. Just a minor complaint.

7. Limited track count is 48.

Again not a huge deal, but kind of silly IMO when so many other native daws track counts are so much higher.

8. Hardware specific.

This is another one of those "could be seen as bad or good." It's good that pro tools only works with specific hardware in that it can be more stable. It's bad because what if you don't like the way m audio or avid interfaces sound?
 
Now if you bothered to read all that (and I commend you if you did) your probably going "why the fuck do people use pro tools then?"


Well to me it comes down to a few things:

1. File interchange ability. You can take a file made on HD and record and edit some more on LE or m powered without any issues other than plugins being bypasses if you don't own them. Cubase does not have the same kind of thing going on. If for instance you wanted to swap files back and forth between a studio 5 user and a cubase 5 user, you can't. Cubase files are not backward compatible.

2. Lots of people have it.

3. It's one of the best audio editors out (IMO of course). The smart tool is genius.

4. The way it routs emulates analog gear. I must say routing in pro tools is easier than it is in cubase (IMO again of course).

5. Pro Tools being anal about hardware it runs with makes it really stable, honestly I don't think I have ever had pro tools crash on me other than when line 6 was being all dumb.


Anyway, I'm not loyal to any specific daw. If audition is working for you I say great keep with it. You might want to check out (if you want) a demo of both Reason and Abelton Live for what your doing. Also check out Reaper, I personally hate reaper but no reason you should have a look at it. A lot of people seem to like it and it's cheap.
 
should you go to pro tools? yep

Thanks, Guitardot, all well said and laid out nicely.

I mostly write out midi piano roll songs, note by note, and occasionally by virtual keyboard.

For me, and putting out the extra $500.00 for the extended instrument pack, I found that suddenly I'm hearing all of the sounds, instruments that I hear on all of the commercials over the years. This fact alone made me go 'ah-hah'.

I used Reason happily for a couple of years, my wife said it all sounded bassy and like electronic instruments.

In Cubase 3, 4, 5 (full) she ended up saying the same, although less so.

And in Pro Tools she said, oh you paid for real instruments all of a sudden? Those sound close to real.

So it was a no brainer to me hearing her constant comments.

Workflow?

Yes, I appreciate SmartTool now that I've learned to use it. And I use a macro mouse shortcut utility that makes working in audio a breeze on track editing.

I simply find the stock effects and virtual instruments more varied and with a wider range of choice, as well as they simply sound more real, and less toy piano sounding as the Cubase ones do.

Glad you all can be more technical in explaining your choices and findings, that will be more useful for the gent deciding whether to go to pt or not :)

But for me, it's simply my personal artistic choice.

I wish you all well
Chuck
 
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