Is mixing and mastering a farse?

jmarques

jmarques

The Original BeatMinstrel
I'm starting to think mixing and mastering is a farse. I don't think you can just mix anything you want together and no amount of mixing is going to fix a problem with sounds that don't work together.

I work on a lot of stuff since I've got into doing computer all the way back to 1992. Since then I've tried experimenting with a million different things and all them were pretty much a failure.

I've pick up serveral books on mixing, mastering, arrangement and production, acoustic space design and serveral web tutorials all related to audio within the last few years and have applied some of it to some success.

I've notice a common theme to successful mixing and mastering is knowing exactly what you want your sound to sound like. No second guessing!!

Processors and Effects are there to enchance sound to make it better. The keyword here is enchance if you have a mess of stuff that doesn't work pre-mix then there is nothing you can to with effects and processors to make it better. The Lesson Learn here is that if you have a poor arrangement with sounds that don't gel together and no amount of futile placement of effects and processors is going to fix problems in the mix.

I'm starting to become a firm believe that a good mix starts with goods sounds that work together. The next thing is a solid arrangement that combine the right sound for amazing impact. From here it pretty much the mixer job to bring sound to it's fulless potential. At this point if everything was done correctly. The mixer shouldn't have to do much work to get the song to work really well.

What that point of all this. I don't really know I guess I'm just ranting about nothing.

Thanks for listening and have a nice day.
 
jmarques said:
I'm starting to become a firm believe that a good mix starts with goods sounds that work together. The next thing is a solid arrangement that combine the right sound for amazing impact. From here it pretty much the mixer job to bring sound to it's fulless potential.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, and yes. :D

But let's not forget the music either!
 
So.....how does this make mixing and mastering a farce?

It should be no suprise that the first thing that has to be good in the whole sequence of events is the music.

I'm not sure exactly what sort of revelation you've had here...but.....congratulations! ;)
 
metalhead28 said:
So.....how does this make mixing and mastering a farce?

It should be no suprise that the first thing that has to be good in the whole sequence of events is the music.

I'm not sure exactly what sort of revelation you've had here...but.....congratulations! ;)
Click to expand...

14 years of struggling with production you might understand.

Just really frustrated with the whole thing. Should I just give up!! No. Why? I've already put in some much time and energy. Just trying to save other people's time and effort to think about what they are really trying to do.
 
Talking about from the perspective of a rap beat producer. I suppose this doesn't relate to people with rock bands when you have serveral different points of view in a group enviroment.

It's easier for problems to get resolve fixed before the mix.
 
Let me just answer my question. I guess it's not a farse, but it's only equates to about half the solution when it comes to recording music.
 
Most bands I've worked with in the last 20-some years have no idea of how bad their core sounds suck. Having a group of people just means that you have that many times the problem.

But no doubt - If a mix isn't 90% "there" just from putting all the faders up at unity, it's usually going to be a struggle to get it anywhere.
 
So what you're saying is, if someone comes to you with a loop of steel drums and they want you to add bagpipes, yodelling, and harmonica in the wrong key....you shouldn't do it? :p
 
I find it very refreshing when I see the light finally going on for some of the people on this board.

That said, I still think your terminology needs to be adjusted. You can't tell a chef that baking is a farce any more than you can tell a race car driver that changing his oil and tires is a farce.

A process is still a process. And any process has a series of steps. But where I think the light went on for you is in the realization of the "bigger picture." Yes, each process has it's steps, but you have to be careful not to let any one step or stage within that process trip you up. i.e. Don't let the individual steps involved distract you from the big picture of what you're doing. A great cake can't be made without a great recipe ... but a great recipe is useless without fresh, quality ingredients to start with.

.
 
metalhead28 said:
So what you're saying is, if someone comes to you with a loop of steel drums and they want you to add bagpipes, yodelling, and harmonica in the wrong key....you shouldn't do it? :p
Click to expand...


metalhead28 you sound like a pretty smart guy. I think you can answer that question your self.

... the point is if you can get the steel drums to work together with the bagpipes, yodelling, and harmonica in the wrong key. Then it's probably ready for the mixed down. Actually that's not the point!! ;)

I'm talking about sounds that clash together here don't work. How do you know what sound don't work you might ask?

I guess you could waste you whole day experimenting trying to make things work or you go with things that you know work.
 
Mixing never takes long for me. Tracking is what takes the longest. Not only does each part have to be played well but you have to get the right tone from each instrument for it to sit in the mix naturally.

Lots of trial and error for me when I record songs. Sometimes I'll record a rhythm guitar 10+ times, not because of mistakes, but because I didn't mic the guitar correctly for the mix.

And then I'll add another instrument to the mix, and have to redo the rhythm part yet again.

I do this until everything sounds good without EQ, but then I just add a little EQ to 'perfect' it and give each instrument more space.

This is how I do it though, and I'm sure everyone has their own ways. I'm by no means a professional. ;)
 
danny.guitar said:
Mixing never takes long for me. Tracking is what takes the longest. Not only does each part have to be played well but you have to get the right tone from each instrument for it to sit in the mix naturally.

Lots of trial and error for me when I record songs. Sometimes I'll record a rhythm guitar 10+ times, not because of mistakes, but because I didn't mic the guitar correctly for the mix.

And then I'll add another instrument to the mix, and have to redo the rhythm part yet again.

I do this until everything sounds good without EQ, but then I just add a little EQ to 'perfect' it and give each instrument more space.

This is how I do it though, and I'm sure everyone has their own ways. I'm by no means a professional. ;)
Click to expand...

That's how I do things too. Not that I'm a perfectionist, as anyone can tell by listening to my stuff, but I usually spend about five times on the tracking as on the mixing.
 
Yep. I feel the same way actually for me it's like 20:1 amount of time tracking vs mixing. Unfortunely I think this is the way for our breed.
 
The best end product happens when proper attention to detail and proper decisions are made in ALL aspects of the recording whether it be composition, performance, selection and quality of instruments, tracking, mastering and mixing. When you start making sacrifices anywhere down the line, ALL aspects become tainted.
 
jmarques said:
14 years of struggling with production you might understand.

Just really frustrated with the whole thing. Should I just give up!! No. Why? I've already put in some much time and energy.
Click to expand...

14 years is an aweful long time. If you haven't gotten it by now you probably won't. Quitting is a viable option. You'll have more time to spend on something else that will frustrate you into quitting.

Personally, I enjoy making music. The whole process. The idea, writing the parts, the arrangement, lyrics, engineering, mixing, the whole bit. It stokes me after every song that I finish because I can here improvements in each area. Overall the finished product usually still sucks ass, but every song sucks a little less ass than the last, and that's good enough for me. If I ain't recording I'll have to go inside and watch the hideous CSI: Miami with my chick and that little Horatio fella gives me the creeps.
 
yeah, this is refreshing. i spent years doing things totally wrong, mixing with headphones...geez, all kinds of wrong ways...lost.

Knowledge is a good thing. A few here have offered some great inputs and it's appreciated. My early years no one knew anything, just a bunch or garage band dewds, with no "engineering, physics, acoustics, technical" clue.


But it's still sucking imo. I listen to the MP3's alot anymore. Some seem to have a really well done, everything. Thats encouraging, being its done in HR land. Like Rami's and the others and most will tell you their exact setup and chains. pretty cool.
 
Keep in mind that "mixing" and "mastering" are two different skills.

Mixing is the art of taking all the elements available and blending them in a way that helps the artist achieve their musical goal, or even exceed their expectations.

Mastering is the art of polishing those results to insure that the artist's vision will translate well to different systems when the album is sent out to be duplicated.

These are two different functions that require different tools, different environments, and different skills.
 
I would reccomend you spend time mixing other peoples music and learning the audio spectrum i.e. where everything fits best. There are numerous sources here and elsewhere to guide you along.

Once you learn to mix well, then you can understand how to track well and what the goal is. It's all about learning to listen and knowing what tools are required to get a sound.

Music is not all notes it's also tone. Even very accomplished musicians miss this point.
 
I go along with the 20:1 ratio of track to mix. I've still got tunes unfinished for years 'cause I can't find the right guitar sound. On the other hand, sometimes the right sounds just seem to fall out of the guitar onto the tracks.
Go figure


chazba
 
I would like to say to everyone thanks for the advice. It's all been helpful and good.

This is not a not hopeless situtation or anything. I feel as though I'm realing starting to catch my groove and it feels good to finally be to producing at a level I can be please with.

Like I said before, I wasted alot of time trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. I might be a slower learner, but I feel as though I have a better grasp on the concepts and theories of mixing and producing.

Now it's more about refining, practising and perfecting my craft. The more I can learn the better it will be for me and anybody I work with.

I've always had a problem seeing the big picture, but now I have an idea and approach to getting the sound I want.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top