Is it too much for me?

F

fierywater

New member
I bought into this whole recording thing a while back, though to be honest, I just started actively creating music a month or so ago. I have a Roland RS-50 connected with an Omni I/O, and all the necessary equipment for now. But I've started writing things, and I've realized something.

The RS-50 doesn't feel like an instrument. It just feels like a box of sounds that tries to recreate every sound known to man, with varying success. It's not an analog synth, and it's not a high-quality digital synth. With a guitar, you have your sound, which you can modify. With an analog synth, it seems, most everything is a series modifications to the basic sound. The RS-50 (and most do-it-all synths) doesn't seem to have a sound of its own, it simply tries to emulate everything else.

I'm not the greatest pianist, and I really enjoy creating the music infinitely more than playing it. So the 61 keys seem both intimidating and unnecessary at times. It seems strange, but I almost feel like I'd be happier with a 37-key Alesis Micron or Korg Microkorg than I am with my RS-50, because they're dedicated to what they do. My bandmate (and cousin) plays guitar, and loves it. I love creating music and putting it together, and to an extent I enjoy playing it. I'm a decent singer, as well. But I don't feel like the RS-50 fits what I want to do.

I'm a teenager (17), and I was forced to take piano for about five years before I couldn't take it anymore. My piano teacher taught me how to play piano pieces off sheets, but nothing of music theory. I've basically had to teach myself everything I know about it. I won't deny that my piano playing ability has suffered since I stopped taking lessons. My father helped me buy the RS-50 (though nearly everything else has been completely out of my pocket), so I feel uncomfortable about wanting to be rid of it.

But I'm not sure that I don't want to be rid of it. Like I said, I don't feel like it's an instrument. It's somewhat hard to carry around, requires a decent amount of setting up, and is overkill for what I like to do. It's not like, during a gig, I'd ever need to use more than a few different patches. I'd rather have something more...personal? Even if it had less capabilities, I feel like I'd rather play something that did one thing well, as opposed to a jack-of-all-trades (and master of none).

Maybe I'm not giving the RS-50 enough credit, or maybe I'm right and it's not the instrument for me. I feel like it might be too much for what I want to do. Having something that's completely overkill may not be a bad thing to most, but to me, it seems completely irrational.

Any thoughts on this? What do most keyboardists do to make their sound seem their own? It seems incredibly difficult. Do they limit the number of patches they use, or do they use them all? I feel somewhat lost, and I'm not sure if you guys can help, but any (semi-constructive) responses would be nice.
 
fierywater-

I doubt that anyone can answer the questions you are asking other than you. If you aren't inspired by the RS50, then it probably isn't the right instrument for you.

But the points you make are valid in many ways. I've been buying a fair amount of equipment the last couple of years and I've been playing for over 40 years. My first synth was an EML101 which came out in the early 70's. Though extremely limited by today's standards, it certainly had its own personality! Now, it seems difficult to find a synth that has that kind of 'life' that we generally attribute to acoustic instruments.

Of the instruments I have the only one I feel has that kind of depth and potential is my Korg KARMA. It's just an amazingly deep synth and I don't think I'll ever reach the limits of what it's capable of.

I think the place where we're seeing innovation and unique approaches to design is in software. There are a lot of interesting, challenging and crazy soft synths out there. Not to mention algorithmic composition programs.

And it's not surprising. To bring a hardware device to market is a very expensive proposition. Manufacturers are forced to create boards that will appeal to a broad spectrum in order to generate enough sales to offset their development and manufacturing costs. It's got to be difficult. No doubt, there's a tendency to play it safe.

Perhaps you'd be better off with a MIDI controller keyboard, a fast computer and software like a sequencer or something like Reason or Project 5.

I think another thing to consider is what kind of music you're trying to create. While the RS50 would probably be good for many styles, the Korg and Alesis you mention are going to be more limited. That might be fine. It all depends on what it is you're trying to do.

Personally, I've been trying to aquire synths that cover different categories. The KARMA soundset is basically the same as a Triton. I've got a couple of virtual analog units. Some romplers. Etc. If I want a piano. I can do that. If I want strangeness, well, that's available too. Unfortunately, no one synth is going to produce every kind of sound.

Maybe it's not unfortunate- let's face it, we all love buying new gear, right? :)

My advice is to try to do more research. First, try to determine what it is you're trying to do. I'd start by analyzing the equipment of the bands whose sound you really like. That's your jumping off point. From there, look at other synths that mfall into the same category as what they're using. Spend time reading up on the technology. Go to the music store and play everything. And I mean PLAY! Don't just listen to a few presets. See if you can figure out how to program it. Try different things. Explore. I've found some keyboards just beg me to play them and I find something inspiring nearly everytime I touch them. Others just leave me cold. It's different for everyone.

Sorry for the long winded post. I hope my suggestions help you. Good luck!

Ted
 
Well put Tedluk,
I agree on the whole Project5/Reason statement (And I'll throw in FL Studio5), especially as fierywater has stated that he would prefer to create music than perform it. I think a good software package is the way to go fierywater. I mean you can drop tons of money buying all kinds of good hardware, only to find it is not what you were really looking for, and possibly not appreciate hardwares true forte...Playability, especially live. I think you should get a nice software package, and you can always keep the RS-50 as a controller, and for the sounds that you do like in it.
 
First off, thank you to both of you. Your responses was just the type I was hoping for. Constructive. lol

I realize it's sort of a personal question, and no one can tell me exactly what to do. But like you said, the RS-50 doesn't inspire me. It doesn't have it's own personality.

I've basically wanted to do techno-ish music (but not really dancing music, per se). I like using a lot of...ambient sounds, maybe? I realize the Korg and Alesis are somewhat limited, but I think that's part of why I'm attracted to them. They're instruments with their own personality, that no matter how you customize the sound, it still sounds like that instrument.

I'm not really into the exclusive MIDI controller idea only because...well, to be honest, I'm not postive. I like the idea of not having my sounds be dependent on the software I'm using; with an instrument, I can bring it places and not have to install any softsynth anywhere. However, I need something that will act as a MIDI controller so I can use the sounds of a soft-synth if necessary. I have a copy of Reason Adapted, and Cakewalk HS2 came with a few softsynths, so I should be covered in that aspect.

I need to find some techno-ish bands though, see if there are any that are close to the style I want to make. I'm planning on going to Guitar Center tomorrow afternoon, so I'll make sure to make the keyboard rep's life a living hell by trying out everything and buying nothing. :D

I tried FLStudio 5 once, and it was cool, though I don't really want to spend the money on it. I do want live playability still, no doubt. Portability's important to me as well. Something small works well for me. I don't plan on dumping too much more into this, though I'm not afraid to make mistakes. That's what trying out instruments in-store (and return policies, for that matter) are for! I have a few people I like to chill and play with from time to time, so the MIDI controller doesn't really work for me.

However, I think I have a better handle on what to do now than I did before. Both of your responses were helpful, though I don't think I'm going to keep the RS-50. Once again, thanks a lot for taking the time to respond and not writing me off as a dumb n00b. :p
 
Listen up dumb n00b!!!
Keep the RS-50!!!
Spend thousands of dollars at GC, and leave me the hell alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D (Obviously kiddin')
 
You just made me cry. I hate you. I'm now going to kill myself by bashing my head through my RS-50 while listening to Good Charlotte full blast through my monitors, treble boosted through the ceiling. goodbye. :(

i hope you know i'm joking. lol.
 
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF YOUR GONNA KILL YOURSELF,

YOU NEED TO CRANK SOME DEATH-METAL,

AND MAYBE GET A COUPLE OF SACRIFICIAL GOATS!!!!!!!!

You know, for good measure :D

NO!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings pansy :)

BTW, welcome!!!

I'll shut-up now (don't want to get in too much trouble, ya know!!!)
 
I think I probably would die if someone blasted GC with full-on treble. Or even without it. It's painful no matter what you do.

so much for keeping things on topic. =D
 
True, Very True.
I'm curious as to your aspirations fierywater. You say you are interested in creating music but not performing it. Do you just look at your music as Sonic Therapy? More or less for your ears only, or do you aspire to one day be a great performer, and your still learning the ropes. Because you claim to be a complete n00b, yet you have had 5 years of lessons. And 5 years of playing is 5 years of playing whether your a teenager or 50 years old. Or was it just a situation, where you only participated as needed to keep your parents off your back, and now you are breaking out of the shell of conformitiy, and growing into your own style. I'm just curious, because I don't really know what being that age without music 24/7 was like, as I have been playing since I was 5. Hell, all the partying I did as younger lad, I'm lucky to even remember my teen years at all.
 
I'm not sure, to be completely honest.

To an extent, it's definitely sonic therapy. A way of getting emotions out, or expressing other emotions. I'd love to be in a major band on-stage someday, but it's not my focus right now. I like making music and then letting other people listen to it. If they like it, fine, if not, then no one loses anything but time. Really, it's just my love of (mostly) all things musical. I can't function without some sort of music.

The five years of playing definitely counts, though, it's just that it was only playing. I don't know if I really learned anything other than how to move my hands across a keyboard and hit the notes as the paper said to. I knew time signatures and scales and such, but I didn't know anything of what actually made music. I have to say that I really only played for four. For the last year, I basically did nothing while my parents tried to look for some excuse to keep paying for the lessons. It's not that I didn't like the piano, I just hated being restricted. I hated playing for my parents, and wanted to do something for me.

So after a year or so of expanding the music I listened to beyond Linkin Park and Evanescence to more complex things like Metallica, or even Dream Theater (crazy bastards!), I realized I wanted to try making music. I wasn't sure where to begin, really. But my father wanted to get me back into playing a keyboard again, so I took advantage and started assembling my setup. However, it basically sat in my room looking pretty for 3-6 months, until I just recently started diving into it all. I picked up a Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory book, and went from there.

A bit of software here, a compressor there, and I'm where I am now. At a crossroads, sorta. I've come to recognize my voice's abilities and limits, and I know a lot more than I did even a month ago. I talked to my father about it, and he's basically told me I can do what I want with the RS-50. I think my parents feel the music's good for me, no matter where it comes from, and I'm not arguing. Despite the fact that I can't wait to get out of here and into college, I'm stuck here for a year+ until then.

So really, I don't know what my aspirations are. I'll probably join up with a few others to form a band soon, as I've had a few sessions with my cousin that have worked out pretty well. I like doing things on my own though, because there's no one to argue with. I just want something I can sit down at and make something. I don't want to deal with unnecessary complexities if I can help it. I don't care if I ever make a single dime off of anything. I just enjoy the music.

Damn, that was long-winded. I'm definitely still learning the ropes, and despite the uncooperative Guitar Center salesmen, I think I'm doing decently. I just found this forum this week, which helps a lot. Message boards help with everything, I've found (I worked for a PDA message board as a moderator about a year ago). I don't think I missed anything, so that's it. Hopefully, my trip to GC tomorrow'll go well.
 
Well ,
sounds like you have a good long road ahead of you, on your musical journey. Definitely getting out and playing with others will help. Yeah you can go it alone (I did for a long time in between bands, about 4 years). That eventually leads to stagnation (And i've seen many people give up playing all together for this reason alone).

Oh, you said earlier about Korg being limited, and as Karma owners me and Tedluk would probably hold you down and beat some sense into you for that comment, if we were in the same room as you. So, checkout: http://www.nightwish.com/ Than buy a CD, and be absolutely friggin blown away at what Korg can do (They use Karma, N364, and Triton 88). They are one of my all-time favorites.

Good luck with everything. :)
 
Here is a link to a preview track:


EDIT:
I just listened too that, and it is not much of a preview for a METAL band.
 
eh?? RS-70

fierywater,

sorry to hear about your problems man. it sucks when u spend a lot of money and find that u dont enjoy it!!

not to be harsh or negative, but i always wondered how those RS-series synths sold anyways. they only have a couple of sounds/arps....what else?? 700 dollars is too much a price to pay for that crap. that Juno-D too, not very worth for its money. my advice : sell that thing as quick as u can, get a used Triton/Triton Le with sampler or get a 88-note controller and get Reason/Project5/other softsynths.....

i hate those RS-series synths....played them once in GC, hated them forever.

the thing with workstations is that u can do everything in one piece. take the triton for an example, u can sample your guitar into it and record it. even load samples of drumkits/whatever you want, play some synths, program your own synths, sequence MIDI with it, and enjoy(depending on the person)....its not just the triton, theres the motif, fantom, kurz and all those other great boards....


if u have only little money, get something that can do a lot for you. i got a Fantom S and i LUV it! i can sample with it, sequence with it, play some tunes and enjoy at the same time.....

and dont worry about that part of RS-70 being an overkill to you....get something that u'll enjoy in the long run. BTW, i'm a n00b too..... :)
 
Thanks for the advice. Though I don't recall saying the RS-50 seemed limited (my comment was referring to the MicroKORG and the Alesis Micron), I hear what you mean. I've listened to Nightwish before, they're damned good.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I guess I just have to think about it some more.
 
I tried out the Roland RS-50 and the bigger version of that when they came out and also felt uninspired by it. I'd almost call it a "corporate" keyboard. It takes no chances.

The Karma is a wonderful keyboard, although I don't own one myself.

The only real way to find the right keyboard fo ryou is to go to the store and just play everything they've got. Then buy whatever inspires you. There's no way to really know unless you actually get your hands on them.

There have been many times I've read about a synth and gotten all excited about it, only to try it out at the store and wonder what the heck they were talking about. Other times, I'll play something that I wasn't even considering and fall in love with it. So the only way to know is to actually play them.
 
As far as choosing synths- My feeling generally is I much prefer things that fall outside of the mainstream. First, when everyone on the planet is using a Triton, it's pretty hard to stand out. I know the KARMA shares most of its soundset with the Triton and uses the same synthesis engine, but that's my point. I chose a KARMA because it is different. It's also amazing! Usually, I try to do a lot of research before purchasing. I read a lot of user reviews and try to find synths that approach things a little differently.

As for your feelings about your lessons. All those years ago when I was a kid, my parents forced me to take piano lessons too. I hated it. I remember many battles with the teacher where I insisted I knew better how to play than she did! Still, I stuck with it for those 5-6 years and I'm glad I did. When I was 12 or 13, I decided I wanted to learn to improvise. Without those basic skills I learned- hand position, posture, reading, basic technique, etc. I would have had no framework from which to begin. Of course, it also helped that my saintly mother was willing to let me sit there playing a C blues scale over and over for hours at a time! I truly don't know how on earth she withstood it. But that's what you need to do. Stick with it.

Finally- Don't depend in any way on anyone at GC knowing anything about anything! I do my research beforehand. Luckily, the salespeople at GC generally make no effort to help you so you should have plenty of privacy to experiment.

Ted
 
tedluk said:
Finally- Don't depend in any way on anyone at GC knowing anything about anything! I do my research beforehand. Luckily, the salespeople at GC generally make no effort to help you so you should have plenty of privacy to experiment.

Ted
Click to expand...
Telling it, like it is.
 
The people at the GC I go to tend to swarm on me like flies half the time. They seem fairly knowledgeable, but I definitely do 99% of my research online when looking into this stuff. Before I had found this board, it was a little harder to do that.

And tedluk, I'm often the same way with trying to do something against the mainstream. I definitely see what you mean about the Karma, it does seem like everyone and their mother owns a Triton.

Well, time to get ready to go to GC and drive everyone there insane by playing each synth endlessly.
 
Well, I just came back from GC after relentlessly trying out every keyboard I could find. I found that I enjoyed two types of keyboards; the ones with a full set of 88 hammer-action weighted keys (the Triton LE, in particular), and the small synths (basically just the Micron). I enjoyed playing the Triton series and the Micron more than I enjoyed playing any of the others. Every time I tried to go back to the RS-50 in the store, it sounded and felt weak. I know the Triton and the Micron are two VERY different beasts, but I was simply seeing which ones I enjoyed playing.

I loved the Micron. I loved the arrangement of sounds it could do, as well as the interface. I couldn't stand the MicroKORG, however, because of the small keys and the sound of it. The Micron, to be honest, wipes the floor with it, as far as I can tell. I may end up going with it. I wish I could've tried the vocoders, but the MicroKORG's didn't want to work, and the Micron didn't have a mic. But that's not really the important part of it anyways. I'll have to think some more, but I really liked the Micron's sound.

Then again, I liked the Triton's too, but the Micron (and probably the Ion, if I had the money) is more what I'm looking for.
 
Hmmm...

If I was feeling greedy, I probably wouldn't tell you this, but there's a 'scratch and dent' Micron on Musician's Friend for $339.15!

Hurry up and get it before I weaken and snatch it up for myself! ;)

Ted
 
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