Is it the pickups or the guitar?

N

Newbie-Doo

Member
Just picked up an ESP EC-1000 (two thumbs up) with the Seymour Duncan JB/59 pickups and I am amazed at the variety of GOOD groovable tones all the way up and down the volume pot.

The JB (uncovered) goes from metal crunch, to classic rock, to juuust breaking up bluesy, to clean funkified thin and never gets muddy. Yeehaw!!
Is this typical for a Duncan JB or did ESP add some extra capacitors or something like that to achieve this miracle of science?

Also, I was thinking that a volume pedal would make it possible to use all of these tones without having to adjust the volume on my amp. Any suggestions you might have on this would be appreciated!

Thanks
 
The volume knob on your guitar works just as well as a volume pedal, no matter where you go it there on your guitar and best of all, it's free!
 
Newbie-Doo said:
Also, I was thinking that a volume pedal would make it possible to use all of these tones without having to adjust the volume on my amp. Any suggestions you might have on this would be appreciated!

Thanks
Click to expand...

The volume pedal will do exactly the same thing as the volume knob. I find the pedal is easier to use (as my hands are generally preoccupied), but as pointed out above, you already have the knob.
 
I think you aren't understanding the words that are coming out of my mouth...

The volume difference it too great to use the same amp voume setting for both the raunchy distorted sounds AND the clean funky sounds. My thinking is that I can use a volume pedal to offset the difference.

With the volume set to a specific level at my amp I could do this:

Volume Full on guitar, 30% on volume Pedal = Metal Crunch Tone

Volume 60% on guitar, 60% on Pedal = Classic Rock Tone

volume 30% on guitar, Full on Pedal = Clean Funky Tone

The idea is to keep the volume roughly the same while getting the benefit of the many tones available with this pickup. Has anyone tried this with good results?
 
This will not work the way you want it to.

Volume Full on guitar, 30% on volume Pedal = 30% volume

Volume 60% on guitar, 60% on Pedal = somewhere slightly above 30% volume

volume 30% on guitar, Full on Pedal = 30% volume

Newbie-Doo said:
The idea is to keep the volume roughly the same while getting the benefit of the many tones available with this pickup. Has anyone tried this with good results?
Click to expand...

You can try rolling back the guitar volume and use a compressor as a boost, or even an EQ pedal (flat setting with boosted level) and see if it works for you.
 
Tele The Truth said:
This will not work the way you want it to.

Volume Full on guitar, 30% on volume Pedal = 30% volume

Volume 60% on guitar, 60% on Pedal = somewhere slightly above 30% volume

volume 30% on guitar, Full on Pedal = 30% volume



You can try rolling back the guitar volume and use a compressor as a boost, or even an EQ pedal (flat setting with boosted level) and see if it works for you.
Click to expand...


Dude, you just proved my point. The volume was consistently at or close to 30%. Thank you. :D
 
Newbie-Doo said:
...but will I still get the Crunch, the Classic, and the Funky?

That is the question...
Click to expand...

No...the changes in tone come from the volume (signal level) input into the amp. The amp doesn't care whether a pedal or knob is controlling the volume.

If your signal into the amp is always, for example, 30% of your max signal, the amp will sound the same regardless of your volume knob and pedal config.

What you want is to control the volume after the amps pre-amp. If it has an effects loop, wire a volume pedal into that. Then you can run your guitar at the volume you want to get the tone you want, and control the ultimate speaker volume.
 
jfrog said:
No...the changes in tone come from the volume (signal level) input into the amp. The amp doesn't care whether a pedal or knob is controlling the volume.

If your signal into the amp is always, for example, 30% of your max signal, the amp will sound the same regardless of your volume knob and pedal config.

What you want is to control the volume after the amps pre-amp. If it has an effects loop, wire a volume pedal into that. Then you can run your guitar at the volume you want to get the tone you want, and control the ultimate speaker volume.
Click to expand...

Although it is true that reducing the volume with the pot or with a volume pedal will affect the volume and tone the same way, this is true only if there is nothing else in the signal chain. I run several FX boxes with a volume pedal last, so I can give the FX a hot signal from the guitar and still reduce the volume to the amp.
 
ggunn said:
Although it is true that reducing the volume with the pot or with a volume pedal will affect the volume and tone the same way, this is true only if there is nothing else in the signal chain. I run several FX boxes with a volume pedal last, so I can give the FX a hot signal from the guitar and still reduce the volume to the amp.
Click to expand...

That is true...but it sounds like newbie-doo is controlling the tone of his amp by how hard he drives it.
 
Newbie-Doo said:
Just picked up an ESP EC-1000 (two thumbs up) with the Seymour Duncan JB/59 pickups and I am amazed at the variety of GOOD groovable tones all the way up and down the volume pot.

The JB (uncovered) goes from metal crunch, to classic rock, to juuust breaking up bluesy, to clean funkified thin and never gets muddy. Yeehaw!!
Is this typical for a Duncan JB or did ESP add some extra capacitors or something like that to achieve this miracle of science?

Also, I was thinking that a volume pedal would make it possible to use all of these tones without having to adjust the volume on my amp. Any suggestions you might have on this would be appreciated!

Thanks
Click to expand...

Aside from all of the other debate....

In this case it is both the pickups AND the guitar. I have that exact same model (EC-1000, JB/59, Amber Sunburst), and have experienced the same thing you have. It's just a phenomenal guitar for the money! I haven't liked most Duncans I've heard, but I have yet to find someone that didn't like the sound of the JB/59 combo. Also, ESP didn't slack on the components, with the Tone-Pros bridge and Sperzel tuners.

I've found a very versatile general setting is to have tone control wide open, neck pickup volume at about 1/3 and bridge volume at about 85% or so. Leaves a nice clean sound on the neck pickup, decent thickness on neck+bridge, good edgyness on bridge only, and still a little bit of room to boost the bridge pickup for lead lines and such.
 
sile2001 said:
Aside from all of the other debate....

In this case it is both the pickups AND the guitar. I have that exact same model (EC-1000, JB/59, Amber Sunburst), and have experienced the same thing you have. It's just a phenomenal guitar for the money! I haven't liked most Duncans I've heard, but I have yet to find someone that didn't like the sound of the JB/59 combo. Also, ESP didn't slack on the components, with the Tone-Pros bridge and Sperzel tuners.

I've found a very versatile general setting is to have tone control wide open, neck pickup volume at about 1/3 and bridge volume at about 85% or so. Leaves a nice clean sound on the neck pickup, decent thickness on neck+bridge, good edgyness on bridge only, and still a little bit of room to boost the bridge pickup for lead lines and such.
Click to expand...

Yep, sounds like just about where I found those sweet spots that appealed to my Classic RockBluesyFunky taste.

At first try I liked the '59 Duncan just fine, but at full volume I found the JB too Gritty for the tone I was after. I thought I'd have to get a Gibby '57 Classic or Burstbucker to replace it. Once I figured out that I could turn down the Tone or Volume without it turning to mud and could get a multitude of flavors out of that pickup I was like a kid in a candy store. I like it more and more as I learn the sweet spots.

Like a Les Paul, this is one of those guitars that can do it all.
 
Newbie-Doo said:
...
Dude, you just proved my point. The volume was consistently at or close to 30%. Thank you.
Click to expand...

You will get pretty much the same sound with each of those settings. 30%, no matter how you get it, is 30%. The volume pedal is only a redundancy. Look at it this way, the volume pedal will only reduce volume, not increase it. If you start with full volume, you can only cut it. You cannot cut the volume with the knob on the guitar to get less gain and then boost the signal with a volume pedal. They don't work that way.


Newbie-Doo said:
...but will I still get the Crunch, the Classic, and the Funky?

That is the question...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, not the way you are looking at doing it here.
Here's another idea for you to try:
Set-up your amp for your classic rock sound and tweek it to where it cleans up nicely with rolling the volume back some on the guitar. Now you should have your classic rock sound as well as a cleaner (but not totally clean) funky sound. To get the crunch sound, turn the guitar volume to full and run a mild OD pedal in front to help push the gain "over the top". This should give you the crunch you're looking for.

BTW, what kind of amp are you using? Is it a single channel?
 
Tele The Truth said:
You will get pretty much the same sound with each of those settings. 30%, no matter how you get it, is 30%. The volume pedal is only a redundancy. Look at it this way, the volume pedal will only reduce volume, not increase it. If you start with full volume, you can only cut it. You cannot cut the volume with the knob on the guitar to get less gain and then boost the signal with a volume pedal. They don't work that way.


Unfortunately, not the way you are looking at doing it here.
Here's another idea for you to try:
Set-up your amp for your classic rock sound and tweek it to where it cleans up nicely with rolling the volume back some on the guitar. Now you should have your classic rock sound as well as a cleaner (but not totally clean) funky sound. To get the crunch sound, turn the guitar volume to full and run a mild OD pedal in front to help push the gain "over the top". This should give you the crunch you're looking for.

BTW, what kind of amp are you using? Is it a single channel?
Click to expand...

I've got two amps, a two channel 2x12 Carvin Valvemaster 100 and a Fender 4x10 Super Reverb. The Fender has two channels but I'd need an A/B switch to use one as a Clean and one as a Lead.
 
Jb

I just dropped a JB in my Big Apple Strat. The tone is amazing! It is everything you described above and more. I highly recommend this PU for any music style.
 
Newbie-Doo said:
I've got two amps, a two channel 2x12 Carvin Valvemaster 100 and a Fender 4x10 Super Reverb. The Fender has two channels but I'd need an A/B switch to use one as a Clean and one as a Lead.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard the Carvin before, but the SR is a nice amp. Some of the sounds you like with the volume knob rolled far back are going to just be low volume settings. Without compensating by turning the amp up(to even out sound level between your 'funky clean' and 'metal crunch'), there's no way you can really match sound levels. Even so, turning up the amp changes the sound so you can't really accurately reproduce what you are hearing at a lower lever. The cool thing is that you can use all of the JB's sounds for recording, but in a practical live jamming situation, there are limitations on getting lost or burried in the mix.
 
Tele The Truth said:
I haven't heard the Carvin before, but the SR is a nice amp. Some of the sounds you like with the volume knob rolled far back are going to just be low volume settings. Without compensating by turning the amp up(to even out sound level between your 'funky clean' and 'metal crunch'), there's no way you can really match sound levels. Even so, turning up the amp changes the sound so you can't really accurately reproduce what you are hearing at a lower lever. The cool thing is that you can use all of the JB's sounds for recording, but in a practical live jamming situation, there are limitations on getting lost or burried in the mix.
Click to expand...

Live application is where I thought the volume pedal would be the answer. I'll just have to try it out and see if the results are satisfactory.

The Carvin is very Fenderish sounding, but tighter and brighter with better bottom end. I would attribute the better low end to the 2x12's vs. the 4x10 blue frames I have in Super. The Super has been modded with a Master volume so I can bring it to the break-up point and still control the overall loudness of the amp.
 
Newbie-Doo said:
Live application is where I thought the volume pedal would be the answer. I'll just have to try it out and see if the results are satisfactory.
Click to expand...

That of course will yield better data than any advice you will get in here. ;^)
 
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