Is a wav file eternal? What is your digital archiving strategy?

E

Eric Altizer

New member
What is your digital archiving strategy for long term preservation?

CDRW
DVDRW
EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE
FLASH DRIVE
MAGNETIC TAPE
NONE OF THE ABOVE

Will wav files still be around 300 years from now?
 
DVD+HDD+rotation+whatever replaces either of those

yes wavs will still be around, it's an easially manipulated and replicated computer file... not a wax cylinder.
 
zekthedeadcow said:
DVD+HDD+rotation+whatever replaces either of those

yes wavs will still be around, it's an easially manipulated and replicated computer file... not a wax cylinder.
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Right, but doesn't it seem that digital objects are actually quite fragile because they can be so easily manipulated? Also many of us are storing our precious recordings on burned cds which have a very limited life-span depending on how they are stored. Naturally we will be always migrating to new storage technologies because sound files are only as long lasting as the media they are stored in.
 
Eric Altizer said:
Right, but doesn't it seem that digital objects are actually quite fragile because they can be so easily manipulated? Also many of us are storing our precious recordings on burned cds which have a very limited life-span depending on how they are stored. Naturally we will be always migrating to new storage technologies because sound files are only as long lasting as the media they are stored in.
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I've pulled audio data from CDRs as old as 6 years and I haven't had a problem. I currently store to either CDR or DVD+R (depending on the size of the project) and make sure to test the burn by reading the files before I delete anything from the hard drive.

But yeah, the lifespan of these discs hasn't really been determined since they are relatively new.
 
wheelema said:
Nothing digital is forever. Thank God I'm analog!!
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Yea, but unlike analog, you can just copy one disk to another over and over and not have to worry about degradation.

So in 10 years, copy the old CD-R to a new one and that'll give you another 10 years.

Also I've heard a lot of tape mediums have a much shorter life span, unless you store it in a really good place.
 
MadAudio said:
I've pulled audio data from CDRs as old as 6 years and I haven't had a problem. I currently store to either CDR or DVD+R (depending on the size of the project) and make sure to test the burn by reading the files before I delete anything from the hard drive.

But yeah, the lifespan of these discs hasn't really been determined since they are relatively new.
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Mad,
You have vast experience with archiving. I am participating in a long-term audio restoration process involving baking magnetic tapes and tranferring to digital sound files as many of us are doing. Given the extremely limited lifespan of both CDRs and HHDs I sometimes wonder if we should be recording right back onto new magnetic tape for long term preservation. Sound crazy? You tell me.
 
solo.guitar said:
Also I've heard a lot of tape mediums have a much shorter life span, unless you store it in a really good place.
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Good storage is important for any type of media, but I've played analog tapes from the 1950's that sounded like they were recorded the day before. I used to do preservation work for a company that got contracts from the National Archives, and I've seen my share of sticky-shed syndrome and vinegar syndrome, but the vast majority of old reel tapes I dealt with were just fine.
 
Eric Altizer said:
Mad,
You have vast experience with archiving. I am participating in a long-term audio restoration process involving baking magnetic tapes and tranferring to digital sound files as many of us are doing. Given the extremely limited lifespan of both CDRs and HHDs I sometimes wonder if we should be recording right back onto new magnetic tape for long term preservation. Sound crazy? You tell me.
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As I stated in the post above, I used to work for a company that did a lot of preservation for the National Archives.

The Archives did not want digital copies. They wanted analog tape. It's a proven medium, so your idea is NOT half-baked (pun intended).
 
solo.guitar said:
Yea, but unlike analog, you can just copy one disk to another over and over and not have to worry about degradation.

So in 10 years, copy the old CD-R to a new one and that'll give you another 10 years.

Also I've heard a lot of tape mediums have a much shorter life span, unless you store it in a really good place.
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That's a good point.....no degradation whatsoever. But having to transfer every 5-10yrs for a large collection of audio files is time consuming! Right now I am storing all wav files on my hard drive and not using discs. Is there a better alternative at this point in time?
 
Digital does have to potential for requiring constant maintenance as formats migrate. This is weighed against the ease of transfer. I store my archives on the best available digital media, which as I am currently aware is MAM-A Gold Archive. If you have the ability to archive on to quality analog media (I don't), I would do that as well.

In either case it's good to pay attention to storage conditions--dark, fireproof places with stable temperature and humidity.
 
Eric Altizer said:
That's a good point.....no degradation whatsoever. But having to transfer every 5-10yrs for a large collection of audio files is time consuming! Right now I am storing all wav files on my hard drive and not using discs. Is there a better alternative at this point in time?
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A single hard drive is a poor archival medium due to its risk of failure and the expense of data recovery. Even if the life of a CD-R is limited, it is cheap short-term insurance against hard drive failure.
 
MadAudio said:
As I stated in the post above, I used to work for a company that did a lot of preservation for the National Archives.

The Archives did not want digital copies. They wanted analog tape. It's a proven medium, so your idea is NOT half-baked (pun intended).
Click to expand...

:D thanks
The National Archives is using magnetic tape for long-term audio storage?

Let me put it this way......if you were going to put all of your recordings in a time capsule inside a cave to last 1000 yrs time, what storage media would you use at this time?

Transcribe to scrolls? :)
 
mshilarious said:
A single hard drive is a poor archival medium due to its risk of failure and the expense of data recovery. Even if the life of a CD-R is limited, it is cheap short-term insurance against hard drive failure.
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:eek: That is very good advise, thanks! I will begin making data cds on the very highest quality discs affordable and maybe copy to another hard drive as well.
 
Eric Altizer said:
The National Archives is using magnetic tape for long-term audio storage?
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Yes, as stated above.

Eric Altizer said:
.......if you were going to put all of your recordings in a time capsule inside a cave to last 1000 yrs time, what storage media would you use at this time?
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Analog tape on a machine that was properly calibrated and with tape that was known not to have sticky-shed problems, no question.
 
MadAudio said:
Analog tape on a machine that was properly calibrated and with tape that was known not to have sticky-shed problems, no question.
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Steve Albini makes the same argument and it's a pretty good one. Clearly all major-label stuff you'd think would have the masters archived on 1/2" tape.

For the home user, that's tough, if you aren't ready to buy, maintain, and store the equipment and tapes. There isn't an easy answer . . .
 
MadAudio said:
Yes, as stated above.

Analog tape on a machine that was properly calibrated and with tape that was known not to have sticky-shed problems, no question.
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Indeed. Howard Sanner, the list moderator of the Ampex discussion list, works for the Library of Congress in the recorded sound section. The staff there are well versed in all of the considerations for archiving audio over long periods of time. They still rely on analog tape recordings, conservative level practices and old, non-back coated tape formulations immune to sticky shed and other related soft binder problems. When you have over 2 million recordings, mandatory transferring under any time frame is NOT an option.

Otto
 
ofajen said:
Indeed. Howard Sanner, the list moderator of the Ampex discussion list, works for the Library of Congress in the recorded sound section. The staff there are well versed in all of the considerations for archiving audio over long periods of time. They still rely on analog tape recordings, conservative level practices and old, non-back coated tape formulations immune to sticky shed and other related soft binder problems. When you have over 2 million recordings, mandatory transferring under any time frame is NOT an option.

Otto
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Right, analog tape is a proven long-term storage medium. So it sounds like the best thing to do at this time is bake the sticky shed tapes and transfer to good quality tape again plus make wav files. Hopefully it won't be too long before a reliable and durable storage medium comes along for digital files.

Even today many artists swear by the "natural" and "warm" sound of analog tape recordings and I have played tapes that are over 40 yrs old that still sound great. Yet we are faced with the fact that analog equipment like open-reel tape machines are becomming obsolete. I think Otari still makes 2 track analog open-reel recorder.
 
Eric Altizer said:
Right, analog tape is a proven long-term storage medium. So it sounds like the best thing to do at this time is bake the sticky shed tapes and transfer to good quality tape again plus make wav files. Hopefully it won't be too long before a reliable and durable storage medium comes along for digital files.
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Lots and lots of digital records, mostly data, are archived on magnetic tape.
 
mshilarious said:
Lots and lots of digital records, mostly data, are archived on magnetic tape.
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Okay so what is the life cycle of a DAT tape drive? Should we all be storing our wav files on DAT (digital audio tape) for the long term?
 
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