So the drummer in the band I'm in (who's also a bassist and guitarist) claims he's the only person in town who intonates his guitars, which is probably about right since it's a small town and half the guitarists in it don't even know how to change their own strings, let alone even know what intonation is. Personally, I'm not too picky about my intonation, and as long as the open is within a few cents of the 12th fret, I'm peachy. I usually don't mess with it unless I'm doing some major action/string changes. I do all my work on my guitars myself, mainly because I don't trust the guitar shops around here; I always feel like I'm getting ripped off, plus I'm handy enough to do most anything myself. I was just wondering what everybody else's stance is on it. So yeah, have at it.
Intonation
- Thread starter Imaduck
- Start date
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I have a good guitar tech that I use for inital set-ups and dressing, but any intonation issues after that I handle myself.....
mshilarious
Banned
I don't worry too much. Equal temperament sounds out of tune to me anyway. I retune slightly to get closer to a mean temperament when I play in different keys. I suppose I should reintonate for different keys, but that's just too fussy.
Also I play a lot of acoustic guitar, and I'm kind of stuck there. I think you just have to learn to pull & push notes into tune.
Also I play a lot of acoustic guitar, and I'm kind of stuck there. I think you just have to learn to pull & push notes into tune.
timmerman
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Gtr.shops and Gtr.Tech.
So Imaduck wrote "....don't trust the gtr.shops......getting riped off" Well I think that is for most of us the experience. Apart from that they do not always know how to perform the job as well! Like Blue Bear Sound I have a good gtr.tech. who I trust and who will LISTEN to what I would like him to do in terms of modifications. Some people out there will do what they think is right, whether you like it yourself or not [get that also with amp. repair people]
Intonation....well I would have thought most of us can do that ourselves, but when you are starting out......., yeah then it is a different story, need to develop your ear ect. ect.
Is there anyone here who uses the Buss Feiten Intonation System?. There was a real hype about that one about 5 or 6 years ago, some of the great artists such as Vai got in touch with him to get their guitars intonated.
Eddie
So Imaduck wrote "....don't trust the gtr.shops......getting riped off" Well I think that is for most of us the experience. Apart from that they do not always know how to perform the job as well! Like Blue Bear Sound I have a good gtr.tech. who I trust and who will LISTEN to what I would like him to do in terms of modifications. Some people out there will do what they think is right, whether you like it yourself or not [get that also with amp. repair people]
Intonation....well I would have thought most of us can do that ourselves, but when you are starting out......., yeah then it is a different story, need to develop your ear ect. ect.
Is there anyone here who uses the Buss Feiten Intonation System?. There was a real hype about that one about 5 or 6 years ago, some of the great artists such as Vai got in touch with him to get their guitars intonated.
Eddie
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Light
New member
Unless you have a strobe tuner, you do not have the ability to do an acceptable job of intonation. This is just a simple fact, as there is no other form of tuner which is accurate enough for intonation work. I, of course, do my own intonation work, but that is what I do for a living, so I have the strobe available. Your typical digital tuner is accurate to within a few cents. A strobe is accurate to within a few hundredths of a cent. This is particularly important if you are recording.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
timmerman
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Analogue,Digital and Strobe Tuner
So Strobe Tuners are better,and as technology is always moving forwards, in the future they will find something which is even more accurate.
I have been using an analogue tuner since I started on electric gtr. not bought a digital one yet, feel I do not really need it. Of course some of those digital ones are very precise.
Are there any people here who tune by ear and not use a machine at all? [or only use a tuner in "critical" circumstances such as recording] I have to admit I always use a tuner, regardless the situation. Perhaps it is just that I use it because it is part of habit, or part of the "I have one so let me use it" scenario?.
Eddie
So Strobe Tuners are better,and as technology is always moving forwards, in the future they will find something which is even more accurate.
I have been using an analogue tuner since I started on electric gtr. not bought a digital one yet, feel I do not really need it. Of course some of those digital ones are very precise.
Are there any people here who tune by ear and not use a machine at all? [or only use a tuner in "critical" circumstances such as recording] I have to admit I always use a tuner, regardless the situation. Perhaps it is just that I use it because it is part of habit, or part of the "I have one so let me use it" scenario?.
Eddie
I used to work with a guy at a music store who seemingly had perfect pitch. He just grabbed guitars and tuned them, without doing the old tune at the fifth fret trick or even a reference tone. He plucked each string seperately and just...tuned them. He always used a tuner at gigs, though.
Light, if you check back on this thread, do you have an opinion on the digital strobe tuners? I've got a Sabine tuner which I really like, it's sensitive enough to show the string going out of tune as the note decays, but have been thinking about the upgrade, more so now that I read the part of your post about recording.
Light, if you check back on this thread, do you have an opinion on the digital strobe tuners? I've got a Sabine tuner which I really like, it's sensitive enough to show the string going out of tune as the note decays, but have been thinking about the upgrade, more so now that I read the part of your post about recording.
mshilarious
Banned
timmerman said:
Yes, orchestras tune by ear, unless you count an oboe as a machine. I use a fixed pitch instrument as a reference tone, usually either the chanter from my bagpipes (basically an oboe) or a dial tone. Then I tune everything else by ear, including my 29 string harp. Problem is I always forget if dial tones are F or F#
I read a bit about that Buzz system, and it seems that would only work for barre-type chords. It would be more of a problem with classical and fingerstyle guitar, using high frets and open strings at the same time. I just don't see how you keep every octave perfect on a guitar and make all the thirds perfect (or at least equally perfect) going up the fretboard. I'm not sure of that exactly, but I couldn't find precise details anywhere, so I'm extrapolating a bit.
The real solution is fretless guitars
Another point is that in classical times with non-equal temperaments, there was an expectation that different keys would sound different due to variations in intonation of intervals. I believe equal temperament was a mistake, and we should return to older temperaments. Thus the concept of every chord going up the neck sounding the same is fundamentally wrong to me.
One of my projects laying around is a lute that I want to fret using a 16 fret scale (based upon a 19 note tempered scale, but leaving out 3 of the least useful notes).
Eh, I'll agree that strobe tuners are great, but realistically there are so many other things that affect intonation from strings to moisture in the air and temperature that being within 1000th's of a cent is about the least of your worries. Granted, if you change strings, keep the temperature and moisture controlled, and reintonate every single time you record, I guess you could get to the closest of closeness accuracies, but considering 99.99999999% of the population can't tell the difference (including myself), who cares? Whatever makes you happy though I guessLight said:
.As for tuning by ear, if I'm just sitting around and too lazy to get a tuner and I'm not really playing with anybody else I'll just tune it by ear, or if I just put on a fresh set of strings and I'm trying to break them in. I've been playing long enough to where I can usually get within about 15 cents or less of the actual note from a fresh set of strings, so I guess that's not too bad.
I have a Peterson 490-ST and do my own setups. I file my nuts so they are low enough to where the first frets don't go too sharp and high enough not to buzz. Even still, on most of my guitars the first few frets are still a bit sharp so I flatten my intonation at the 12th fret to spread this error. I use to intonate the 12th fret dead on but my open chords and low fret barr chords sounded out of tune. I prefer the way my guitars tune using this method. Is my philosophy flawed? Has anyone else tried this?
Light
New member
The ONLY thing I ever use a tuner of any sort for is intonation work. For tuning, I always do it by ear, as my ear does a better job. The tuning of a guitar needs to be stretched a little to sound in tune, and electronic tuners do not do this. On those occasions when I have used a tuner to tune, it did not sound in tune to my ear.
My method of tuning is very simple. I tune the A string to a tuning fork (which is much more accurate than a wind instrument like a pitch pipe, which rely on your blowing at the same velocity each time). I then tune all of the A's on each string to the open A string, and then fine tune it using a big E power chord which spans all six strings (open, 7th, 9th, 9th, 12th, 12th). When that chord sounds good, then the whole guitar sounds good.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
My method of tuning is very simple. I tune the A string to a tuning fork (which is much more accurate than a wind instrument like a pitch pipe, which rely on your blowing at the same velocity each time). I then tune all of the A's on each string to the open A string, and then fine tune it using a big E power chord which spans all six strings (open, 7th, 9th, 9th, 12th, 12th). When that chord sounds good, then the whole guitar sounds good.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
i usually tune by ear.
i don't have perfect pitch, but i can hear music in my head and i use that to tune, but only in a bind. i just think of the opening riff to Crossroads by eric clapton and then i hum it to myself and there's my A. then i tune power chords like that pro intonator said in the previous post. but then to double check my bottom strings, cause they seem to be the hardest, i play a G/C and tune the A string and then a G chord to tune the E string. i think you have to know your instrument anyways. and gibsons are notorious for ther G strings always slipping. as far as setting up intonation, i had a pro do it to my satisfaction, which took a few times and i had him use specific strings. and it seems that whenever my strings get dirty, my intonation goes out, so i purchase the exact same set of strings and the intonation is right back to where it should be. my guitar hasn't ben intonated in 3 years, but i change strings before any major event and it hasn't failed me yet.
i don't have perfect pitch, but i can hear music in my head and i use that to tune, but only in a bind. i just think of the opening riff to Crossroads by eric clapton and then i hum it to myself and there's my A. then i tune power chords like that pro intonator said in the previous post. but then to double check my bottom strings, cause they seem to be the hardest, i play a G/C and tune the A string and then a G chord to tune the E string. i think you have to know your instrument anyways. and gibsons are notorious for ther G strings always slipping. as far as setting up intonation, i had a pro do it to my satisfaction, which took a few times and i had him use specific strings. and it seems that whenever my strings get dirty, my intonation goes out, so i purchase the exact same set of strings and the intonation is right back to where it should be. my guitar hasn't ben intonated in 3 years, but i change strings before any major event and it hasn't failed me yet.
timmerman
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G String Slipping on Gibsons and Other Gtrs.
MesaHead..........The Guibsons have that probem of "slipping G string" Yes well where does this come from? Long time ago I put a Graph. Tech. bridge on mine [which is usally used to overcome string breakage] this seemed to have improved the intonation and also "cured" the G-string problem. Have an Ibanez Artist where you still get the "G-string going out of tune after having played for a while, whereas all the others are still in tune". There must be some kind of technical reason why gtrs. do this, does anyone of you know what it is?
Eddie
MesaHead..........The Guibsons have that probem of "slipping G string" Yes well where does this come from? Long time ago I put a Graph. Tech. bridge on mine [which is usally used to overcome string breakage] this seemed to have improved the intonation and also "cured" the G-string problem. Have an Ibanez Artist where you still get the "G-string going out of tune after having played for a while, whereas all the others are still in tune". There must be some kind of technical reason why gtrs. do this, does anyone of you know what it is?
Eddie
Intonation is something best done by someone who has the ability and tools to do it, and has some knowledge of how the guitar owner plays.
Many times this is the guitar owner, and other times a tech. Playing style makes a difference here, and many times swamps the differences between tuner hardware.
I set up my own guitars, but also do it for others in the groups I play with. One player, who buys and trades guitars on a regular basis, has a fairly heavy touch when he plays. I play with a fairly light touch. A guitar I set up for myself will tend to sound sharp when he plays it. A guitar I set up for him will tend to sound flat when I play it. In the owner uses their guitar, each plays correctly.
Ed
Many times this is the guitar owner, and other times a tech. Playing style makes a difference here, and many times swamps the differences between tuner hardware.
I set up my own guitars, but also do it for others in the groups I play with. One player, who buys and trades guitars on a regular basis, has a fairly heavy touch when he plays. I play with a fairly light touch. A guitar I set up for myself will tend to sound sharp when he plays it. A guitar I set up for him will tend to sound flat when I play it. In the owner uses their guitar, each plays correctly.
Ed
dragonworks
Banned
On my 1972 Gibson ES-335 there is not enough travel on the bridge saddles to set the intonation correctly. She just about makes it. Anyway, my buddie told me there is another bridge that has a little more travel that fits my baby. That and some good tuners are in order.
What a difference 12 years makes
I went twelve years, played in several bands, and even did a few studio sessions and it wasn't until I started to work part time at a small guitar shop that ever heard the word intonation. I tune, play, and now intonate all by ear. Someone said they like their acoustic guitar to be a bit out of tune or that maybe they just let practice and technique make their guitar sound good to them. No set-up or intonation can make up for crappy playing.
I went twelve years, played in several bands, and even did a few studio sessions and it wasn't until I started to work part time at a small guitar shop that ever heard the word intonation. I tune, play, and now intonate all by ear. Someone said they like their acoustic guitar to be a bit out of tune or that maybe they just let practice and technique make their guitar sound good to them. No set-up or intonation can make up for crappy playing.